drdannn Posted December 19, 2013 Share #41 Posted December 19, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I also need Auto ISO in manual mode. Low light in a nightclub for example. I will set my f stop at 2 or 1.4, and if people are moving about I know I need a 1/125th shutter speed. In that scenario I need the ISO to float where needed to maintain my necessary shutter speed so that blurring does not occur. This mode is much like the "TAV" mode in a Pentax camera. We had this mode in our m9 cameras. Now we have a useless auto iso in the M camera, but only in the "A" mode on the shutter speed dial. For low light that setting is totally useless for maintaining a higher shutter speed. Leica needs to hear all the input from us consumers who really need this and expected it on the M240. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 19, 2013 Posted December 19, 2013 Hi drdannn, Take a look here Auto iso coming.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Rick Posted December 19, 2013 Share #42 Posted December 19, 2013 I also need Auto ISO in manual mode. Low light in a nightclub for example. I will set my f stop at 2 or 1.4, and if people are moving about I know I need a 1/125th shutter speed. In that scenario I need the ISO to float where needed to maintain my necessary shutter speed so that blurring does not occur. This mode is much like the "TAV" mode in a Pentax camera. We had this mode in our m9 cameras. Now we have a useless auto iso in the M camera, but only in the "A" mode on the shutter speed dial. For low light that setting is totally useless for maintaining a higher shutter speed. Leica needs to hear all the input from us consumers who really need this and expected it on the M240. You are 100% correct. Unfortunately, a very small group of very vocal Leica apologists jumped in early and said that, it was not a bug and this was the way it should be, for how they shoot. I think Leica believes that we are split on this and it is not a big deal that needs to be fixed. They may someday offer a fix, but it will involve more complexity in the menus. Sorry. Rick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted December 19, 2013 Share #43 Posted December 19, 2013 ...Now we have a useless auto iso in the M camera, but only in the "A" mode on the shutter speed dial. For low light that setting is totally useless for maintaining a higher shutter speed.... Why so? Choose 3200 as maximum iso for instance and open at f/1 or f/1.4 as you like. What am i missing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest redge Posted December 19, 2013 Share #44 Posted December 19, 2013 I also need Auto ISO in manual mode. Low light in a nightclub for example. I will set my f stop at 2 or 1.4, and if people are moving about I know I need a 1/125th shutter speed. In that scenario I need the ISO to float where needed to maintain my necessary shutter speed so that blurring does not occur. This mode is much like the "TAV" mode in a Pentax camera. We had this mode in our m9 cameras. Now we have a useless auto iso in the M camera, but only in the "A" mode on the shutter speed dial. For low light that setting is totally useless for maintaining a higher shutter speed. Leica needs to hear all the input from us consumers who really need this and expected it on the M240. It's a wonder that Roy DeCarava got a single decent shot without auto ISO Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModernMan Posted December 19, 2013 Share #45 Posted December 19, 2013 Interesting that this about-face on auto-ISO functionality and resultant software update comes so soon after the A7r materialized, with reasonably well implemented auto-ISO. Of course the true believers/apologists will know that this is coincidence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModernMan Posted December 19, 2013 Share #46 Posted December 19, 2013 Why so? Choose 3200 as maximum iso for instance and open at f/1 or f/1.4 as you like. What am i missing? He wants shutter priority. Seems like a most legitimate requirement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 19, 2013 Share #47 Posted December 19, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Interesting that this about-face on auto-ISO functionality and resultant software update comes so soon after the A7r materialized, with reasonably well implemented auto-ISO. Of course the true believers/apologists will know that this is coincidence. Complete nonsense. Leica promised this implementation at a time when the A7 was just a vaporware rumour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted December 19, 2013 Share #48 Posted December 19, 2013 You are 100% correct. Unfortunately, a very small group of very vocal Leica apologists jumped in early and said that, it was not a bug and this was the way it should be, for how they shoot. I think Leica believes that we are split on this and it is not a big deal that needs to be fixed. They may someday offer a fix, but it will involve more complexity in the menus. Sorry. Rick I don't see any downside at all to having this as an option if it can be implemented in firmware. I don't need it but why not. But this remark suggesting that 'a very small group of very vocal Leica apologists' has delayed the implementation seems silly to me. I guess that Leica Camera took input from their beta testers and made their features decision. Now they've evidently had some feedback from some that a change is wanted. If someone labelled those people 'a very small but vocal group of Leica complainers' you would likely be annoyed and think it unfair. This apologist label sometimes seems to get used as an attempt to discredit anyone who disagrees or has some positive input or different viewpoint on their Leica equipment. We must be able to do better than that silly name calling surely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdannn Posted December 19, 2013 Share #49 Posted December 19, 2013 He wants shutter priority. Seems like a most legitimate requirement. That is exactly correct; shutter priority in low light. It does not work when setting auto ISO in the "A" shutter dial mode as the shutter fluctuates to much lower speeds than are usable for moving subjects. I really do not care what photographer got what shot without auto ISO. That is meaningless to me. This is the year 2014 and all I want is what I had in the m9 that I sold. I rarely use auto ISO, but it is a fabulous tool for low light shutter priority, especially when lights are rapidly changing from darker/lighter/etc. Now with the improved ISO I can set a max of 3200 and I would not care where in the ISO range the camera chose to accommodate my shutter speed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pieterpronk Posted December 19, 2013 Share #50 Posted December 19, 2013 How do people use the "auto iso" in manual shutter mode as it is implemented right now? I just don't see how one would use is. Can somebody just give me an example? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 19, 2013 Share #51 Posted December 19, 2013 Instead of guesstimating the EV compensation. Just turn the shutter speed dial off A and use it like you would an M6 by measuring the relevant part of your image. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 19, 2013 Share #52 Posted December 19, 2013 I don't see any downside at all to having this as an option if it can be implemented in firmware. I don't need it but why not.But this remark suggesting that 'a very small group of very vocal Leica apologists' has delayed the implementation seems silly to me. I guess that Leica Camera took input from their beta testers and made their features decision. Now they've evidently had some feedback from some that a change is wanted. If someone labelled those people 'a very small but vocal group of Leica complainers' you would likely be annoyed and think it unfair. This apologist label sometimes seems to get used as an attempt to discredit anyone who disagrees or has some positive input or different viewpoint on their Leica equipment. We must be able to do better than that silly name calling surely. Indeed. As I see it there is a group of people who are happy with the present implementation and additionally welcome an extra setting to accommodate an other group that holds an opposing view and would like an M8-like solution. Unfortunately some of that group want their vision to prevail to the exclusion of others. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModernMan Posted December 20, 2013 Share #53 Posted December 20, 2013 Complete nonsense. Leica promised this implementation at a time when the A7 was just a vaporware rumour. Note that this thread which seems to announce the promise of updated auto-ISO was started 3 days ago. But, parsing your dismissal in a bit more detail: if this feature was promised so long ago and in view of the fact that delivery has been made on the then-contemporaneous "vaporware rumor" of at A7, then whose promise is presently "vaporware"? Anyway, were Leica to have stepped up their resolve to update this in view of the capabilities of other products in the market (other than the M9/ME), there would be no shame in that, quite the opposite in my view. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roey Posted December 20, 2013 Share #54 Posted December 20, 2013 How do people use the "auto iso" in manual shutter mode as it is implemented right now? I just don't see how one would use is. Can somebody just give me an example? Right now it is pretty much broken. You will get whatever ISO you had selected before you switched to AUTO. Users who want the shutter speed setting override their ISO setting either need to always stick to the same ISO or have a really good memory. So not only do we need a setting to turn off the override behavior (for those of us who prefer the M9 behavior), we also need a setting to specify what ISO to set when overriding it (for those who don't like the M9 behavior). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 20, 2013 Share #55 Posted December 20, 2013 Note that this thread which seems to announce the promise of updated auto-ISO was started 3 days ago. But, parsing your dismissal in a bit more detail: if this feature was promised so long ago and in view of the fact that delivery has been made on the then-contemporaneous "vaporware rumor" of at A7, then whose promise is presently "vaporware"? Nonsense indeed. What has the date of some thread got to do with it? The official announcement was in June. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-type-240/287713-auto-iso-issue-m240-5.html#post2424423 And yes, the clock ticks leisurely but steadily in Solms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted December 20, 2013 Share #56 Posted December 20, 2013 I don't see any downside at all to having this as an option if it can be implemented in firmware. I don't need it but why not.But this remark suggesting that 'a very small group of very vocal Leica apologists' has delayed the implementation seems silly to me. I guess that Leica Camera took input from their beta testers and made their features decision. Now they've evidently had some feedback from some that a change is wanted. If someone labelled those people 'a very small but vocal group of Leica complainers' you would likely be annoyed and think it unfair. This apologist label sometimes seems to get used as an attempt to discredit anyone who disagrees or has some positive input or different viewpoint on their Leica equipment. We must be able to do better than that silly name calling surely. Geoff, The implementation in the M240 is the same as the M9 in the menu system. The blueprint of what the designers wanted is there for anyone to see. But, the implementation is not carried out in the function of the camera. In other words, it doesn't work like it says it should. This can be seen by returning to the Menu when you switch from "A" to any other shutter speed. Doing this you will find that Auto is still displayed and not the current ISO. So, this is either a bug in the display or the camera should have kept changing the ISO automatically to keep up with your shutter speed changes, like the M9 does. This is either a bug in the menu or a bug in the implementation. Apologies all you want... IT IS A BUG! Now, here we are and Leica finds out that guys like you and jaapv say this is the way it is supposed to work. Leica, must figure that it is fine. Why should they change it if you guys want to defend a bug? Stop working against us by defending Leica. Now, if there was any logical reason why it should be the way jaapv and the apologists want it then, fine... put both choices in. But, there exists no logical way that it should work like the way it is. It is broken. It is a bug. Please, stop defending this so we can get it fixed. And, please stop saying that it should be a menu choice. It simply should not, because: If, you don't want Auto ISO, simply return to the menu and turn it off when you decide to set your own shutter speed. Or, don't turn on Auto ISO if you don't want it. How can I make this any clearer. I have talked to Leica and explained this and that I do not want to see a choice in the menu system. I have explained to them that the choice already exists in the menu system already... Don't turn on AUTO ISO in the first place or return to the menu and turn it off. Rick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted December 20, 2013 Share #57 Posted December 20, 2013 Indeed. As I see it there is a group of people who are happy with the present implementation and additionally welcome an extra setting to accommodate an other group that holds an opposing view and would like an M8-like solution.Unfortunately some of that group want their vision to prevail to the exclusion of others. You are about the only one who thinks this bug is all happy and good. Please stop apologizing for this bug or we won't get it fixed. Nobody wants an extra setting. This is the beauty of this system... not a lot of extra settings. Less is more. Form follows function. Weniger, aber besser. And, stop saying I want to excludes others. The correct and previous implementation excluded no one. All you have to do is turn off Auto ISO. That solution excludes no one. Your accusation is getting old and irritating. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted December 20, 2013 Share #58 Posted December 20, 2013 ...So not only do we need a setting to turn off the override behavior (for those of us who prefer the M9 behavior), we also need a setting to specify what ISO to set when overriding it (for those who don't like the M9 behavior). I don't know for you but what i don't need is complicated things personally. I don't need another nikanosony, i have a couple of them already. And all this because some nice people want to mix auto with manual and don't want to change their shutter speeds with the aperture ring. Bit of stars caprice no? The more i read this thread the less i'm convinced by your plea my friends, with respect to your good selves of course... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roey Posted December 20, 2013 Share #59 Posted December 20, 2013 I don't know for you but what i don't need is complicated things personally. I don't need another nikanosony, i have a couple of them already. And all this because some nice people want to mix auto with manual and don't want to change their shutter speeds with the aperture ring. Bit of stars caprice no? The more i read this thread the less i'm convinced by your plea my friends, with respect to your good selves of course... Nobody wants to mix auto with manual. I just stated what appears to the compromise that Leica is going to implement. I would be fine with Leica just fixing auto ISO so that it doesn't get magically turned off when I move the shutter speed dial. Shutter speed and ISO are two independent variables. Once you ask for dependencies (e.g. "Please Leica, turn auto ISO off when I pick a fixed shutter speed") you introduce complexity and the need for menu options. I am with RickLeica on this (for once ): Given how unusable this "feature" currently is I would be surprised if there are more than a handful of people who really use it and are happy with getting more or less random ISO values. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted December 20, 2013 Share #60 Posted December 20, 2013 I just watched a presentation where the speaker filmed his presentation on a GoPro mounted to a quadrocopter. The quadrocopter has been coded such that he could "throw" it into a point in space to position the camera angle. The algorithms used meant that the copter behaved, when thrown, as if it were moving through a viscous fluid. Effectively artificially virtually altering the physics of the air he was throwing it through. To get the copter down afterwards, full body motion detection systems read his body language in real time and he was able to virtually 'pull' the copter to the ground with gesture alone. I'm excited to hear that Leica may be able to one day implement a non crippled Auto ISO feature. I also await with keen anticipation a firmware fix for the buggy M9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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