mirekti Posted June 17, 2014 Share #101 Posted June 17, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Both, C1 and LR curves were set to linear in the example above. Here is C1 Linear vs C1 Film Standard Curve (which I really like). All in all, I have an impression Phase One gave much more time to create a generic profile that works great IMHO. It's hard to look back now once I tried the C1. Maybe C1 algorithms are simply superior to Lightrooms, not sure, but I'm very pleasant with the way it renders M240 files. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/218220-m-color/?do=findComment&comment=2612795'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 17, 2014 Posted June 17, 2014 Hi mirekti, Take a look here M Color. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Rick Posted June 17, 2014 Author Share #102 Posted June 17, 2014 I like the one on the right. Seems more accurate to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted June 17, 2014 Share #103 Posted June 17, 2014 I like the one on the bottom. You guys sure go crazy over this color stuff. I guess I still have much, much to learn and so little time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted June 17, 2014 Share #104 Posted June 17, 2014 The one on the right is brighter on my monitor. Colors don't look all that different though. I still have whatever the last free upgrade version was of C1 when I had my M8, and like the user interface of LR much better. Likewise I have the last free upgrade to LR that came with my M9. Will download the latest LR included with the M240 and whatever free upgrade(s) it allows. I'm just a cheapskate I guess, but I have always contented myself with whatever software came bundled free with a camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirekti Posted June 18, 2014 Share #105 Posted June 18, 2014 Colors don't look all that different though Here are samples for photo borrowed from this thread http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-lenses/335923-apo-50-images.html#post2718476 The first one C1 Linear Response curve, the second one LR Linear curve. All other settings left on default values. I'd say the difference is more than obvious. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/218220-m-color/?do=findComment&comment=2613381'>More sharing options...
Dougg Posted June 19, 2014 Share #106 Posted June 19, 2014 There is indeed an obvious difference, But I have a hard time seeing if the colors are actually different or if its simply a difference in density. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmars Posted June 19, 2014 Share #107 Posted June 19, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) There is a difference, but what is better? To me LR looks better, especially the greens. Color is a matter of taste. Elmar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 19, 2014 Share #108 Posted June 19, 2014 Yellow grass? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmars Posted June 19, 2014 Share #109 Posted June 19, 2014 Yellow grass? Yes. It looks like the Agfa green. I always liked it. Elmar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirekti Posted June 19, 2014 Share #110 Posted June 19, 2014 Yes. It looks like the Agfa green. I always liked it.Elmar I somewhat agree, it matches perfectly with pig's pink on humans. ...per my taste Now seriously, I just wanted to share my experience with C1 and LR, which convinced me there is a raw converter that does great job with M240 dng files, and it's not Adobe's Camera Raw. It's hard to see the details from silly sized photos on this forum, but I encourage anyone who is not satisfied with the color or rendering to try it out with Capture One. For me, the difference is huge and existing. Cheers!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ario Arioldi Posted June 19, 2014 Share #111 Posted June 19, 2014 I use both LR and CO, depending on the circumstances, and I have a lot of different profiles for both the two raw developers to be used again on different occasions. Profiles can be used, and I use, as the "old" analog material, sometime is Velvia, sometime is Portra, sometime is TriX. I do not believe that the merits of the raw developers can be judged on the basis of the canned profiles only. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
epand56 Posted June 19, 2014 Share #112 Posted June 19, 2014 Here are samples for photo borrowed from this thread http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-lenses/335923-apo-50-images.html#post2718476 The first one C1 Linear Response curve, the second one LR Linear curve. All other settings left on default values. I'd say the difference is more than obvious. This looks quite absurd to me. One is a good picture, the other one is a totally overexposed picture. I never had such a difference in colors from C1 and LR. I always found the pictures from LR quite good. On the other side I find C1 a difficult, unfriendly and intricate application. These are the greens I get from LR; colors are very similar to those where the picture was taken. It is an almost untouched jpeg from LR: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/218220-m-color/?do=findComment&comment=2613924'>More sharing options...
mirekti Posted June 19, 2014 Share #113 Posted June 19, 2014 This looks quite absurd to me. One is a good picture, the other one is a totally overexposed picture. I never had such a difference in colors from C1 and LR. Maybe there is something wrong with my PC. The examples above are the same photo, took from the 50mm APO thread. Follow the link, download the dng and compare outputs by yourself. I used linear curve, and changed nothing else in both, LR and C1. I have many private shots where green looks great in LR. My point was that there is a big difference in C1 and LR, and I like what I see from C1. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 19, 2014 Share #114 Posted June 19, 2014 These are the greens I get from LR Nice pic indeed but i would like it even better with a bit more yellow lightness or a bit less yellow saturation. FWIW. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted June 19, 2014 Share #115 Posted June 19, 2014 All other settings left on default values. Huh!? Why would someone want to compare two raw converters' default results? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirekti Posted June 19, 2014 Share #116 Posted June 19, 2014 Huh!? Why would someone want to compare two raw converters' default results? That's a valid question. My presumption was that they should both be up to some common standard, and deliver pretty much the same by default. However, even when I start to play with all other slider except of HSL, the color rendering is different. As it was already mentioned, all this color thing was a personal taste. I will stay at my opinion that LR made lousy job compared to Capture One. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamiji Posted June 20, 2014 Share #117 Posted June 20, 2014 No, there is no standard, and which raw converter plays a very large role in your final output. I too am a C1 fan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
analog-photo Posted July 25, 2014 Share #118 Posted July 25, 2014 Here are samples for photo borrowed from this thread http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-lenses/335923-apo-50-images.html#post2718476 The first one C1 Linear Response curve, the second one LR Linear curve. All other settings left on default values. I'd say the difference is more than obvious. I downloaded the trial Capture One Express two days ago (have used Lightroom for three years) and am by no means an expert on digital processing, but unless you have posted the wrong image from C1, your comparison is unfair. The file name indicates that the "film standard settings" are applied on the C1-file, which will produce a more saturated and higher contrast image than "Linear Response". The latter is more appropriate to compare with LR Linear Curve. This said, I can after two days confirm what many others has said here, C1 produces a result superior to LR, specially when the color red is involved. But it is possible to create similar results from LR, but you need time and some trial-and-error-work with the settings. Still, I am not convinced by C1, the interface and work-flow logics in LR is far better as well as the different tools offered to make corrections. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted July 25, 2014 Share #119 Posted July 25, 2014 Here are samples for photo borrowed from this thread http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-lenses/335923-apo-50-images.html#post2718476 The first one C1 Linear Response curve, the second one LR Linear curve. All other settings left on default values. I'd say the difference is more than obvious. ....... well I'm sitting here looking at the original .... and as I took the picture I know what the colours should look like. In LR on my screen the original is 2/3 the way to the C1 image you posted...... which was generated by Adobe Standard in LR.... and the R image is over-exposed.... I have some custom LR M240 profiles which make some subtle differences ..... but with scenes like this it is more down to taste rather than what is 'right'...... and minimal changes in sunlight/cloud make big differences. This was early June in the UK and this year because of the non existent winter and plentiful rain everything was very lush and the greens unusually vibrant. I reality they were almost fluorescent in character..... There is a whole thread of photos from when the M came out about the colour issues .... many with colour charts in picture as well as references .... and initially there were significant issues ..... after the first f/w revision I gave up worrying about it and also stopped using my own profiles. I personally don't have an issue with the M colour balance ...... but the Auto WB is flakey and not a patch on the XV or T which are spot on no matter what the conditions. That's what generates most of the problems. I use LR and find the results fine. I also have C1 but just don't like the way it works ....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanJW Posted July 26, 2014 Share #120 Posted July 26, 2014 I generally agree that most of this is just a matter of personal taste. People perceive color differently. My wife and I see greens and browns differently, for example. I am not sure there is any way to have a sensor/raw developer combination that is either exactly right all the time or pleases everyone all the time and that is why there are endless debates about whose WB is "better" or even whether AWB works (any AWB is just some engineer's idea of what a scene should look like). I am using ACR in CC2014 now because I prefer that workflow. Comparing a M(240), D800e, T, and some occasional Sony RX100, the M(240) files are the easiest to work with and require few WB adjustments, even with AWB. I don't think my T is any better (or worse) on WB, but have not used it enough to be sure. I'm not saying that sensors/developers cannot have issues with color or that any AWB is perfect. But once you reach a certain level of competency, there is little point in arguing about it. If the color you get from your M(240) doesn't look "wrong" to you then it isn't wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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