CEO Alfred Schopf and future products

[AlanG]

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Sony has the sensors. A lot of the rest is meh, particularly the lenses when compared with Leica. A camera system is about optimizing all variables which make it, rather than maximizing one, which in the case of Sony is the sensor. Sonys A7® are the Mustang Shelbys of cameras....

 

It seems to me that Sony is bringing a lot more to the table than just a great sensor.

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[zlatkob]

It seems to me that Sony is bringing a lot more to the table than just a great sensor.

 

This is true. The main thing they are bringing is a new concept. There is no other interchangeable lens autofocus full-frame camera that is this small. This is a genuine breakthrough in camera size. Leica was already there in terms of size, but not with autofocus. Sony offers big camera image quality in a very small camera package for autofocus users, with the bonus of being able to use lots of manual focus lenses. I think it's a great concept. Of course, as a first generation product, it is likely to lack some refinements. Telephoto and wide-aperture lenses are still likely to be somewhat large. That 35/2.8 looks nice and small, though I would much prefer a 35/2.

[rosuna]

This is true. The main thing they are bringing is a new concept. There is no other interchangeable lens autofocus full-frame camera that is this small. This is a genuine breakthrough in camera size. Leica was already there in terms of size, but not with autofocus. Sony offers big camera image quality in a very small camera package for autofocus users, with the bonus of being able to use lots of manual focus lenses. I think it's a great concept. Of course, as a first generation product, it is likely to lack some refinements. Telephoto and wide-aperture lenses are still likely to be somewhat large. That 35/2.8 looks nice and small, though I would much prefer a 35/2.

You can download an app to the Sony A7 and A7r camera for in-camera lens corrections, and create and save a "profile".

 

It is a good idea for a similar app by Leica:

 

 

You can use your Zeiss and Leica lenses and have the corrected in the camera!

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You can download an app to the Sony A7 and A7r camera for in-camera lens corrections, and create and save a "profile".

 

It is a good idea for a similar app by Leica:

 

 

You can use your Zeiss and Leica lenses and have the corrected in the camera!

 

Not at the moment. According to the Sony brochure, and Mr Jones in the A7 thread who's tried it, it is not yet available for the A7/A7R.

[algrove]

This is true. The main thing they are bringing is a new concept. There is no other interchangeable lens autofocus full-frame camera that is this small. This is a genuine breakthrough in camera size. Leica was already there in terms of size, but not with autofocus. Sony offers big camera image quality in a very small camera package for autofocus users, with the bonus of being able to use lots of manual focus lenses. I think it's a great concept. Of course, as a first generation product, it is likely to lack some refinements. Telephoto and wide-aperture lenses are still likely to be somewhat large. That 35/2.8 looks nice and small, though I would much prefer a 35/2.

 

Well phrased.

 

Once I get my a7r, I will see how my old Af Contax G lenses perform on the a7r with the Techart adapter which is supposed to allow G lenses to AF on the a7r. If you look at Ken Rockwell's site linked below, one can see he discusses these lenses quite thoroughly. The 21 and 28 could be nice WA lenses if they work in AF mode. We shall see.

 

Contax G System

[AlanG]

You can download an app to the Sony A7 and A7r camera for in-camera lens corrections, and create and save a "profile".

 

It is a good idea for a similar app by Leica:

 

 

You can use your Zeiss and Leica lenses and have the corrected in the camera!

 

 

Isn't this app just for in camera jpegs?

[algrove]

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Wonder if it will have a clip on EVF a la VF-2? Better be VF-4 or better.

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The Leica Mini M Won’t Be Full-Frame, It’ll Be an X Vario System Camera | THEME

[Mantice]

If I'm Leica I won't worry - during my visit to local Leica Bontique for the past 10 months while waiting for M240, I saw that rich newbie are gradually sucking up X system and re-branded Panasonic like some kind of leisure food item.

 

I'm speculating that Leica Bontique has create a sale model based on status quote. The expensive (dual meaning) climate you got from entering such "store" filled with artisitc layout and eye-catching display, plus "glove only" item inspection and well trained sales who knew well the 30 second rule of getting customer's attention......

 

I have seem a rich guy bringinig his 18ish daughter to buy a "camera", where at the end she end up picking up X-vario and waitisted for an M240 plus 35/1.4A.... oh well...

[MarkP]

Funny though, I would have said the opposite.

 

After the release of the AR7, if this is not FF interchangeable with M&R lens corrections I'd have thought too little too late.

 

But maybe I'm wrong...

[IkarusJohn]

Funny though, I would have said the opposite.

 

After the release of the AR7, if this is not FF interchangeable with M&R lens corrections I'd have thought too little too late.

 

But maybe I'm wrong...

 

If it is (we've all been disappointed before), I'll ditch my A7r in a heartbeat.

[mjh]

After the release of the AR7, if this is not FF interchangeable with M&R lens corrections I'd have thought too little too late.

If I were Leica I would say “Let Sony do what Sony does best.”

 

Sure, Leica could build a camera along the lines of the Alpha 7 or Alpha 7r, i.e. a non-rangefinder, pure EVIL camera with the ability to use existing M lenses, but what could they do better than Sony? I mean, quite likely a Leica would not be as ugly as Sony’s offerings; that isn’t hard to do. And the Leica could read lens codes. But apart from that?

 

There already is a mirrorless FF Leica, namely the M. And while a pure EVIL alternative could be cheaper, I don’t quite see Leica competing with Sony on price.

[wildlightphoto]

If I were Leica I would say “Let Sony do what Sony does best.”

 

Sure, Leica could build a camera along the lines of the Alpha 7 or Alpha 7r, i.e. a non-rangefinder, pure EVIL camera with the ability to use existing M lenses, but what could they do better than Sony? I mean, quite likely a Leica would not be as ugly as Sony’s offerings; that isn’t hard to do. And the Leica could read lens codes. But apart from that?

 

They could make M wide-angle lenses work well.

 

There already is a mirrorless FF Leica, namely the M. And while a pure EVIL alternative could be cheaper, I don’t quite see Leica competing with Sony on price.

 

They could make the viewfinder more responsive, build the EVF into the camera, and eliminate the IR contamination. The M lens mount also restricts the options for long-lens users in that it causes mechanical vignetting with long-focus lenses such as the 400mm and 560mm f/5.6 and f/6.8 Telyts. For my uses the M(240) has four strikes against it.

[rosuna]

If I were Leica I would say “Let Sony do what Sony does best.”

 

Sure, Leica could build a camera along the lines of the Alpha 7 or Alpha 7r, i.e. a non-rangefinder, pure EVIL camera with the ability to use existing M lenses, but what could they do better than Sony? I mean, quite likely a Leica would not be as ugly as Sony’s offerings; that isn’t hard to do. And the Leica could read lens codes. But apart from that?

 

There already is a mirrorless FF Leica, namely the M. And while a pure EVIL alternative could be cheaper, I don’t quite see Leica competing with Sony on price.

 

Lets see how is the new APS-C "T system" by Leica... That is a territory with many contenders already...

 

(Sigma will be there as well... with foveon sensors...).

[AlanG]

There already is a mirrorless FF Leica, namely the M. And while a pure EVIL alternative could be cheaper, I don’t quite see Leica competing with Sony on price.

 

It my have no mirror but is not truly "mirrorless' in the sense of being fast to shoot in live view. If having a rangefinder and working well with M wides are the only things the M can do better than the A7, then they are already losing sales to Sony and others. Making a good EVIL version would at least retain some of these customers and could grow the brand by allowing for the development of more lenses, including AF ones. Is Leica's full frame future going to forever be limited to MF prime lenses that are 90mm and shorter? If Leica can't compete pricewise with other brands do you think limiting the system so much will be a long term solution? I don't see how the rangefinder technology can be developed much except possibly to make the interface electronic and have the entire mechanism interchangeable with an EVF. But two bodies would be a simpler solution.

[rosuna]

Is Leica's full frame future going to forever be limited to MF prime lenses that are shorter than 90mm? If Leica can't compete pricewise with other brands do you think limiting the system so much will be a long term solution? I don't see how the rangefinder technology can be developed much except possibly to make the interface electronic and have the entire mechanism interchangeable with an EVF. But two bodies would be a simpler solution.

 

Good questions...

[mjh]

They could make M wide-angle lenses work well.

 

They could make the viewfinder more responsive, build the EVF into the camera, and eliminate the IR contamination. The M lens mount also restricts the options for long-lens users in that it causes mechanical vignetting with long-focus lenses such as the 400mm and 560mm f/5.6 and f/6.8 Telyts. For my uses the M(240) has four strikes against it.

All of that could (and maybe should) be done within the M system; none of it would amount to an argument why Leica should build a non-rangefinder FF camera compatible with M lenses.

[IkarusJohn]

All of that could (and maybe should) be done within the M system; none of it would amount to an argument why Leica should build a non-rangefinder FF camera compatible with M lenses.

 

Well, let's see.

 

• Members of this forum have been asking for such a camera for a few years now.
   
  
• Leica has acknowledged there is a gap in their product line, where such a camera would fit in.
   
  
• "Very wise" members of this forum said Sony would not (could not) make such a camera, but they did (how about that?) - granted, there is a problem with some wides, and some wides also work with it.
   
  
• The Sony is selling well.
   
  
• Leica already has the FF sensor and mount system which works well (okay, better than the Sony) with Leica wides. All they need to do is to drop the CRF and improve the EVF, and streamline the electronics.
   
  
• Leica understands producing classic designs with minimal controls and a superb interface.
  

 

So, Leica could do an awful lot far better than Sony, they could charge a bit more, and it would sell like hotcakes to a significant (for Leica) market segment. Currently, the only full frame mirrorless cameras with interchangeable lenses are the M and the A7 cameras, and Leica is the only one with lenses to go with it. It would be hard for Leica not to produce a far better camera than Sony ...

 

Conversely, how many APS-C cameras are there out there ... yawn ... They're competing with cellphones.

 

But, we seem to be still stuck on the rangefinder ... Making such a camera would not stop Leica from producing the full rangefinder M camera - why would it stop? It struggles to fill orders as it is.

 

Cheers

John

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[AlanG]

At one point Leica stuck with manual focus for the R system when other brands were going to AF. Now that there is a smaller FF competitor and there may also be others before too long, I'd hate to see them make the same mistake again.

 

Leica's "superb interface" only lets one magnify the center of the frame in live view. So maybe that could use a little work. When you add AF and some other features, the interface gets trickier.

[mjh]

Members of this forum have been asking for such a camera for a few years now.

Which translates into how many cameras that could be sold to these members? Three digits or four digits?

 

I understand that this is about increasing Leica’s market share and an APS-C EVIL camera with a new line of AF lenses could do so much more towards that goal than any M-compatible FF EVIL camera could. At least in my view which Leica may or may not share.