Strange white spots on M9 sensor?

[pico]

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My friends, at this moment in digital photography most use post-processing. Is it so very difficult to repair images automatically or with a a bit of intelligence!

[bocaburger]

You mean clone out the spots on every shot? It's not like a smattering of individual stuck or dead pixels which are so tiny relative to the entire frame that a global batch action can be applied. Best-case scenario it would merely be a giant, aggravating timekiller. Worst-case scenario the spot lands on a detailed area where it's next to impossible to clone it out unobtrusively. And I'm pretty adept with the clone tool. I guess a person would really have to love postprocessing for it's own sake, to accept living with the sensor spots vs having it replaced.

Edited November 27, 2014 by bocaburger

[jaapv]

You can make a mask, or even a flat field correction might work.

[pico]

You mean clone out the spots on every shot?

 

Yes, that is actually what I do. When the erred pixels are in the same position, which they always are with sensor errors, automatic spotting is elementary, automatic. The same is true for column errors. To make it so is just a key-stroke in Photoshop.

.

[jevidon]

Having just been told by Leica that my M9 which is in the repair department for upgrade to M9P will be delayed while they wait for a shipment of new sensors from Wetzlar, I now recall that the only cameras of mine that ever displayed the white spot phenomenon were my Nikon D70s, and my Leica M8, neither of which do I now own. I could never figure out what the problem was with these other two cameras since both had clean sensors on inspection with a sensor loupe. I just dealt with the problem by using spot removing techniques in Photoshop.

 

The ‘white spot’ phenomenon on my M8 did not shock me since I had already seen it on the D70s, so I dealt with it in post processing. When I saw it on my M9, I was a used to it by now. It was only on this forum and thread that I realized it was a problem with the sensor itself as admitted by Leica.

 

It was not until I had my M9 and came across this thread that I realized that other camera owners had the same problem. Now, on reflection, I realize that all three cameras used spectacular performing CCD sensors at their time of introduction and all were designed and/or manufactured by Eastman Kodak. Is that the common thread ( EK ) that is at the bottom of the ‘white spot’ phenomenon?

 

It’s something to ponder anyway, although there is little that can be done about now except to continue to replace the sensors until the supply runs out.

[Kittyphoto]

As promised, we´d like to address a number of questions you have regarding the issue with our CCD sensor and be as clear as possible.

 

First let us state that we regret any inconveniences you may face and do investigate measures to durably fix the problem while still offering the best possible optical performance.

 

By a repair, we replace the CCD sensor with a sensor of the same type we use for serial production. We can thus not exclude totally a new case of corrosion after repair. Therefore, the goodwill arrangement also applies for a replaced sensor, which shows signs of corrosion. In these cases we will consider the sensor replacement date the same as the purchasing date.

 

We think that any potential damages of the sensor surface can occur due to cleaning the sensor and can lead to corrosion. We, therefore, advice to clean the sensor without touching it or in a dust-free environment such as in Leica Customer Care. We don’t want to convey the impression that you are not able to clean the sensor yourselves. If you are confident performing a sensor cleaning yourself, you may do so. But please be aware that the risk, when using wet cleaning solutions in the field, is higher.

 

At Leica, we use “Isopropanol” (isopropyl alcohol) and the following tools to clean the sensor, in the production as well as by the Customer Care:

Pentax Image Sensor Cleaning Kit, O-ICK1:

Sensor Cleaning Kit

Cleaning swabs made by ‘Visible Dust’:

Camera sensor cleaning — Arctic Butterfly sensor brush, loupe, swabs, liquids

 

With great care and attention, you may also use these for cleaning the sensor yourselves. Essential for not damaging the sensor is to painstakingly observe the manufacturers’ instructions and only work with new and unsoiled cleaning aids.

We kindly ask you for your understanding that sensors showing visible mechanical scratch marks occurring from improper cleaning attempts cannot be covered by the warranty and goodwill arrangement.

This is also the reason why we offer to perform cleaning at the Leica Customer Care, free of charge and as often as needs to be.

 

Should you be considering an upgrade to a Leica M or M-P (Type 240), Customer Care will make you an attractive offer as a part of our goodwill arrangement.

 

JJ Viau - Digital Marketing with Stefan Daniel - Director Product Management Photo

Leica Camera

 

Thanks for the clarification demerit. I have just sent my M9P for sensor replacement a few weeks ago. My previous M9 had the same problem so I sold it. This problem remind me about Hasselblad H1D which has spot problem and it turn to be the manufacture problem. There is fungus growth after using a few years. It means we need to replace this sensor every a few years. I am not sure this is the same problem or not. And it really worries me to keep using M9 for long term. I still prefer M9 file look over M240. So this is really a tough decision after I got M9P back whether I should keep using or let it go.

[vincecharus]

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Does anyone know whether S2 (now S 006 and S-E), which also uses a Kodak CCD sensor, has the same problem with corrosion of the glass covering the sensor?

[jaapv]

Leica was very clear: This ONLY applies to the M9, MM and ME. The S series has undoubtedly got another filter array.

Edited November 27, 2014 by jaapv

[Erik Gunst Lund]

Worth noting that many Nikon dslrs are actually made in Thailand (as are Sony cameras) so hopefully can cope with such climatic conditions.

 

Gerry

 

The Pro Nikon DSLR's are made in Japan...

[jaapv]

Just a bit of lateral thinking - if one has a bricked M9, it might be worthwhile to have the IR filter removed altogether, there are services that do so for a reasonable price.

 

That would turn it into a super IR camera.

[Jon Warwick]

I think the M240 is the first "mature" digital M in the sense that it has no significant flaws affecting its basic RF functions. Of course, there are the LV related lockups and the low resolution EVF, but if used strictly as a RF, it works flawlessly. Even without the delamination problems, the M9 still got the breaking sensor cover, card incompatibilities, sporadic lockups that require the removal of battery, loud whirring shutter noise, slow image review and low resolution LCD... should I continue?

 

I'm personally relieved that I paid up last year for a new M240, and ignored the M9 that was an alternative to me to be "more economical". I did this mainly because I preferred the image quality of the M240, but was also attracted to it handling like a very mature product. I'd never consider buying a second hand computer because it's a box of electronics that age very fast and with no idea how the previous owner treated it, so in hindsight it's odd that I once seriously considered a used digital M9 camera.

[M9reno]

As promised, we´d like to address a number of questions you have regarding the issue with our CCD sensor and be as clear as possible.

 

First let us state that we regret any inconveniences you may face and do investigate measures to durably fix the problem while still offering the best possible optical performance.

 

By a repair, we replace the CCD sensor with a sensor of the same type we use for serial production. We can thus not exclude totally a new case of corrosion after repair. Therefore, the goodwill arrangement also applies for a replaced sensor, which shows signs of corrosion. In these cases we will consider the sensor replacement date the same as the purchasing date.

 

We think that any potential damages of the sensor surface can occur due to cleaning the sensor and can lead to corrosion. We, therefore, advice to clean the sensor without touching it or in a dust-free environment such as in Leica Customer Care. We don’t want to convey the impression that you are not able to clean the sensor yourselves. If you are confident performing a sensor cleaning yourself, you may do so. But please be aware that the risk, when using wet cleaning solutions in the field, is higher.

 

At Leica, we use “Isopropanol” (isopropyl alcohol) and the following tools to clean the sensor, in the production as well as by the Customer Care:

Pentax Image Sensor Cleaning Kit, O-ICK1:

Sensor Cleaning Kit

Cleaning swabs made by ‘Visible Dust’:

Camera sensor cleaning — Arctic Butterfly sensor brush, loupe, swabs, liquids

 

With great care and attention, you may also use these for cleaning the sensor yourselves. Essential for not damaging the sensor is to painstakingly observe the manufacturers’ instructions and only work with new and unsoiled cleaning aids.

We kindly ask you for your understanding that sensors showing visible mechanical scratch marks occurring from improper cleaning attempts cannot be covered by the warranty and goodwill arrangement.

This is also the reason why we offer to perform cleaning at the Leica Customer Care, free of charge and as often as needs to be.

 

Should you be considering an upgrade to a Leica M or M-P (Type 240), Customer Care will make you an attractive offer as a part of our goodwill arrangement.

 

JJ Viau - Digital Marketing with Stefan Daniel - Director Product Management Photo

Leica Camera

 

This is probably the best they can do with a very bad situation - a design flaw in every M9 and M9-derivative sensor.

 

Meanwhile my new Jobo CPP3 arrived yesterday. I have never color-processed or printed before, so it will be a steep (but I hope pleasurable) learning-curve.

 

The photo was taken with my M9 and an old lens, a Thambar from 1937, wide open. Who would have thought that a lens used to hide facial blemishes, will from now on be used (by me) to hide SENSOR blemishes? Still, plus ca change....

 

It is time for me, in any case, to adopt REAL tried-and-trusted, mature technologies, and stop throwing money down the Leica-digital money-pit.

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[erl]

As a dedicated film user, you will love the ease of using the Jobo. Not sure on the model designation but I assume yours is one of the new generation. Expensive, but let's not go there. I have an old Autolab 1500 which has had many thousands of films through it faultlessly, both colour and B&W.

 

The B&W you will work out easily. The colour processing will need you to experiment with process times to allow for your temperature control, and chemical mixing regime, but it is not difficult. The worst part is getting access to economical colour chemistry. I buy bulk lab kits and weigh out small portions of the chemical as I need them. A bit finicky but cheaper. Inevitably there is some waste, but still worth it.

[bocaburger]

Yes, that is actually what I do. When the erred pixels are in the same position, which they always are with sensor errors, automatic spotting is elementary, automatic. The same is true for column errors. To make it so is just a key-stroke in Photoshop.

.

 

You can make a mask, or even a flat field correction might work.

 

It would really depend on the size of the spots. Anything much bigger than a few pixels and it would seem to me that hand-cloning would be the only viable way.

[jaapv]

Why? One can make a mask for any size adjustment.

[k-hawinkler]

Just a bit of lateral thinking - if one has a bricked M9, it might be worthwhile to have the IR filter removed altogether, there are services that do so for a reasonable price.

 

That would turn it into a super IR camera.

 

Thanks Jaap. Could you please name such a service or two? TIA.

[edwardkaraa]

Thanks Jaap. Could you please name such a service or two? TIA.

 

www.maxmax.com

[wlaidlaw]

Thanks Jaap. Could you please name such a service or two? TIA.

 

....or in the UK Protech Photo Repairs +44 1825 76279 Gallery - Sample Images From Cameras We Have Converted - Thank You All!

 

Wilson

[M-Mount]

I'm not sure if they can convert cameras with glued filters like M9/MM.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[wattsy]

If you leave it long enough maybe the delaminating patches will join up and the cover will fall off by itself.