M7 DX Reader Anomaly?

[Keith (M)]

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Finished off a roll of Neopan 400 in my M7 yesterday and replaced with another roll of the same (or so I thought). I had rated the first roll at ISO 200 and left the dial on the back of the M7 still set at this speed. Found an empty box on the kitchen shelf this morning - Acros 100, doh! So considerable doubts sown as to what is in the camera.

 

Idea - set dial to 100, point at study wall and check shutter speed then turn dial to DX setting, recheck shutter speed and see if they agree. Simples... At the 100 setting and f5.6, shutter speed shown as 1/3sec. Turn dial to DX position and shutter speed becomes 1/125sec! I have to turn the dial to one dot under 6400 to achieve the same shutter speed. A lightmeter reading agrees with the slow shutter speed reading of the M7. The camera was bought new in early 2011, so must have the latest iteration of DX reader. Any clues as to what is going on?

 

(I know I could rewind the film and have a look, but that would mean wasting a couple of frames to be sure of avoiding double-exposures).

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[wattsy]

Does sound a bit odd, Keith. I think I'd do the mid-roll rewind. It's worth losing a couple of frames to be certain what speed film is in the camera and check that the film canister has the correct DX markings (and therefore rule that out of the equation). You can also then freely play around with other DX speed canisters to try and understand if there is a problem.

[robsteve]

Its been a while since I used the M7, but I think if you set the manual ISO dial to an ISO different than what the reader thinks is in the camera, it will indicate that you are using exposure compensation. I forget how it indicates this, but it will be in the manual.

[stevesurf]

There are two indicator red dots in the M7's VF. The upper indicates exposure lock and lights solid when the shutter release button is partially depressed. The lower indicator flashes when the shutter release button is partially depressed and the exposure compensation dial is set to a position other than zero.

 

Hope that helps

[eric_bowles]

When the ISO dial is set to DX, turn the camera on and look at the viewfinder display. It should briefly indicate the ISO value read from the film, so you can check whether it's misreading it.

 

I had an M7 with an unreliable DX reader that would occasionally misread the ISO value.

[Keith (M)]

When the ISO dial is set to DX, turn the camera on and look at the viewfinder display. It should briefly indicate the ISO value read from the film, so you can check whether it's misreading it.

 

I had an M7 with an unreliable DX reader that would occasionally misread the ISO value.

 

Thanks for the reminder! Had forgotten about that feature and yes, it is misreading it A reading of '5000' comes up in the viewfinder...

 

As over half the film has been exposed at ISO 200, I will carry on and expose the remainder at that setting. After that, with DX selected I'll try different canisters and check for correct reading.

 

In mid 2011 when the camera was just a few months old it started to 'eat' batteries then failed totally, electric-wise and two years ago this month went back to Solms under guarantee. Hopefully this failure to read the barcode is just a one-off and not another sign of impending doom...

[cbretteville]

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ISO5000 means that the reader sees all the squares as reflective.The optical reader is (way too) sensitive for its own good. I have seen intermittent readings on canisters that had tiny scratches in the paint on on block making the DX reader read my Porta 160 as 320. Very annoying. Though now I'm aware of it so I carefully inspect the canisters before loading the M7 with a roll.

 

The way Leica implemented the optical reader and the software that drives it is, imho, its single biggest failing.

 

Carl

[Keith (M)]

Thanks, Carl. To try and determine just what is going on, I have now rewound and removed the film (turns out to be Acros 100). With no film and the shutter cocked, dial set to DX, turning the camera on results in a steady display of '5000' for a couple of seconds. Have tried different canisters (ISO 100, 200 and 400) and each time the '5000' steady display occurs. Cannot see any debris or anything amiss in the film chamber and have gently brushed/blown the reader, to no avail.

 

Will now email Solms to see what happens next (the camera needed comprehensive electrical repairs two years ago when it was not many months old). Clearly I could ignore the problem by manually setting the film speed, but that is not the point...

 

Ah, well - in the meantime I will finish off the Acros 100 in my MP.

[cbretteville]

Keith,

AFAIK it should blink 100 when nothing is reflecting back. Uncoded canisters are supposed to have that effect and I would expect an empty chamber as well. Uncoded, light coloured canisters (yellow, white) will reflect enough that a roll of Rollei Retro 100 is read as ISO5000. II don't have access to my M7 at this time so I can't check the empty chamber for you. Hopefully someone else can. I'll put 50p on that Solms will ask you to send the lady inn so they can assess the problem.

Cheers,

Carl

[alun]

Keith, The original DX reader in the M7 was notoriously unreliable. Certainly, mine was. I had this problem repeatedly -- or the exposure compensation dot would flash when there was no exp. compensation set. In the early years of manufacture Leica was replacing the old DX reader with an improved variant free of charge and mine was replaced. The camera came back and the problem was worse than when it went in. It turned out there was also a malfunctioning circuit board that the engineers had failed to spot first time round and back it went. This was also replaced.

 

I must be fair to Leica Solms, however -- the camera came back with the finder upgraded, all the speeds checks, the camera recovered - and all packed up in a velvet drawstring pouch.... Very nice.

 

If yours is going back for the reader replacement it is worth asking them explicitly to check for any other malfunctioning electrics at the same time.

[wattsy]

I must be fair to Leica Solms, however -- the camera came back with the finder upgraded, all the speeds checks, the camera recovered - and all packed up in a velvet drawstring pouch.... Very nice.

 

I don't disagree with the thrust of your post, Alun, that Leica do tend to stand behind their products but your point about the "velvet drawstring pouch" made me smile. It's a nice touch that must cost the company all of about a euro per bag. I have about six of them at the moment and am not sure that's such a good thing.

[Keith (M)]

Keith, The original DX reader in the M7 was notoriously unreliable. Certainly, mine was. I had this problem repeatedly -- or the exposure compensation dot would flash when there was no exp. compensation set. In the early years of manufacture Leica was replacing the old DX reader with an improved variant free of charge and mine was replaced.

 

If yours is going back for the reader replacement it is worth asking them explicitly to check for any other malfunctioning electrics at the same time.

 

As my camera is a mere two and half years old, it should have the latest version of the DX reader. Two years ago I had to send it back when all electrical/electronic functions failed completely. Now another, albeit different failure. All very annoying!

[alun]

Fair point, Ian. I only ever amassed one velvet drawstring pouch and so perhaps felt more warmly towards them than you have come to

[Keith (M)]

That is the question! After exchanging emails with Frau Frankl, I have been asked to send the M7 to Solms for investigation so that an estimate for repair can be arrived at. An email attachment provides a shipping label for me to print out.

 

As I normally set the film speed dial to something other than the 'DX' position (i.e. I expose Tri-x @ ISO 320, Acros 100 @ ISO 80 etc etc), everything works OK, it is only when set to DX that the camera thinks an ISO 5000 film has been fitted. So as long as I manually set the film speed, alles ist OK. But for how long, I wonder?

 

Do I bite the bullet and send it in, to be faced with a repair bill potentially in three figures plus return shipping etc? Or do I ignore the problem and accept that should I ever wish to sell it, its resale value will be compromised? Decisions, decisions...

[wattsy]

Keith, don't forget about the Sale of Goods Act. This might mean involving your dealer (the legislation seems to place the onus on the dealer rather than the manufacturer to put things right) but the camera will still end up serviced at Solms and it should save you that three figure bill.

[Keith (M)]

Ian - I bought the M7 new from Ffordes in Feb 2011. Its electronics were repaired two years ago. I had assumed that the original purchase guarantee was twelve months and therefore expired. Solms CS did not advise otherwise, hence my worry about repair costs. Your mention of the Act prompted me just now to dig out the original paperwork and I was surprised to find the guarantee card states a 'Three Year Warranty'. Blush.

 

Another email to Frau Frankl is about to be written...

[Keith (M)]

Sent the camera off to Solms late last month and received an estimate on Friday. I was astonished to read that (aside from the DX reader failure):-

 

There was pressure exerted to the release button while the camera was

in off-mode and damaged the locking pin inside the release button.

This repair will be charged, all other work is free of charge.

and that

damaged by pressure/impact damage

I bought the camera new in Feb 2011 and the only time the camera has not been in my possession was two years ago when it was returned to Solms due to complete failure of all electrical/electronic functions. To my knowledge the camera has never suffered any impact of any kind, it is carried in a heavily-padded Lowepro camera bag and when in use it is slung around my neck. The M7 is one of three Leica film cameras I own and has not had heavy use – only twenty two films have been used in it. Therefore I find it very difficult to understand how the reported damage could have happened and also that the blame has been arbitrarily assigned to me.

 

Bemused...

 

Have just replied to Solms querying their findings and await a reply.

[Stealth3kpl]

There was pressure exerted to the release button while the camera was

in off-mode and damaged the locking pin inside the release button.

 

Do I understand this or am I missing something? Does this mean that when the shutter speed dial is at "OFF", pressure on the shutter release can cause damage? Maybe pressure on a soft release whilst putting it in your camera bag? Is the MP at similar risk or is the mechanism different?

Pete

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[Keith (M)]

That is my understanding of the report from Solms. I have never used a soft-release button. Personally I do not understand how the situation could have arisen. If, (and it is a big IF) the damage has been caused by carrying the camera in a snugly-fitting position in a well-padded purpose designed camera bag, then the M7 is not the robust camera that one is led to believe it is. Nor, by implication is the MP, which I also have. All very disconcerting.

 

I await further response from Solms on this matter.

[}{B]

I have used a soft release on my M7 and a month or so ago the DX reader gave a false reading when I used a roll of Agfa Slide film.

 

I assumed that as I had never used this brand before it was a problem with the DX code on the film cassette. Since then other film brands have given normal readings so perhaps it was but I would be interested to know if using a soft release had the potential to cause damage.