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I replied directly to Evita via email. But now that I see Stefan making a similar statement I feel I should post some of my reply to her:

 

" I do take exception to your inference of my taking and not giving, and going for quantity. When time and situation allow, we do a great deal of giving. For example, in the mouintain villages of Madagascar we spent many hours conversing with the natives, attending religious services with them, participating in rites (http://www.barbara-and-stu.com/Soata...20Washing.jpg), and sharing meals. In Laos we lingered over an hour in the hut of a 100 year old basket weaver, sharing stories, roasted tarro root, and giving him the first photo he had ever seen of himself (http://www.barbara-and-stu.com/Laos%...0Weaver. jpg). In Bhutan we taught a class to some school children (http://www.barbara-and-stu.com/Classroom.jpg). In Myanmar (and many other places) we brought a large amount of school supplies to small villages (http://www.barbara-and-stu.com/burma...ge%20Kids.jpg). Wherever we go in third world countries we give people Polaroid pictures of themsleves (http://www.barbara-and-stu.com/Jodhp...0family.jpg )."

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Guest evita

good morning :)

 

so my comments are unappropriate and unpleasent, cutting? if you feel so. i think it's worse to tell someone how great her/his pictures are if there are clearly flaws in them, because that someone will keep on taking the same pictures, making the same mistakes. i find it more honest to say, write, what i really think, even if it's not what people want to hear. i've looked through your homepage, Stuart, and i've seen that that thing with the light in the eyes is something *I* would work on, if these pictures were mine, and i would be grateful if someone would have pointed out to me what *I* could not see. more grateful to that one remark than to the many "wonderful masterpiece" posts. but that's me, everyone as s/he pleases, as already written.

 

and that sentence of yours, about the willingness of being photographed, well, i admit, i don't like it. and i don't understand the statement of Mitchell either, about taking pictures of people in the Himalaya and not of his hometown. i ask myself why? and i'm back to the exotic looking people, they "sell" better... or is it just easier? you're far away from home, nobody knows you, you don't need to give something from you, to interact, to talk, to open yourself (that was it what I meant by giving something, not the material things, a piece of heart and soul you take you should leave by the one you've taken a picture of), you can just take. the world will never change if we just travel around and look at the others like "souvenirs", we need to know, to give, in order to have the right to take.

 

this isn't directed at any of the members here, it's what comes to my mind looking at the pictures on the site (not exclusively those in this thread) and reading the comments to the pictures. everyone knows what s/he wants, where s/he stands. if s/he wants to learn or not. it isn't mandatory of course. but i thought that Leica stands for quality, that someone who buys a camera because of its quality would care about the quality of the pictures too, therefore would want to improve if s/he needed to.

 

unpleasent? yes, my comments are often unpleasent, i don't think much of PCness, i prefere straightforwardness. cutting? yeah, i'll have to work on that. i didn't want to offend anyone, if i have, i'm sorry. unappropriate? no, here i disagree.

 

have a great day all.

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Evita -

 

Please note that I took no exception to your comment regarding learning from Forum members, and many members will recall my philosphy on that, including mention that having experienced photographers who were brutally frank with me about my earliest work was invaluable. Evidence of that position should have been clear when I responded to Stefan's first comment (and if you've seen Stefan's portraits, you know he is a master at portraits), "Stefan - You're right. Suggestions?"

 

"Willingness to be photographed" does appear a bit cavalier. In the last few years I nearly always ask permission to photograph people (there are some obvious exceptions, such as my “The Spice Girls” photo on the first India photo gallery on our site), and almost without fail, Indians not only permitted me to take their photos, but did so with pleasure (such as the “Sisters at Sunset” on the 5th India photo gallery), as was also the case in Bhutan, Laos and Myanmar.

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Guest stnami

So what they are not Staurt's best images, no one is hurt no one is deprived, seems to me Stu and the boys had a good time.

By the way Stuart I agree with Stefan you could have used the negative space to a greater advantage and made it dance.

 

Some people love to be photographed

 

 

 

 

 

Evita as for the other aspect, I take photos as I don't ask people call me a whore and I am keeping my soul as damned as it is into a vortex of terror and grief... the time takers return

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Stefan gives some very good advice here and his work shows how he applies it to his own photography. Photography is all about light and many of us could improve our work by always remembering that. It is even more about the light than about the subject because the images we make either have or lack impact and appeal as a direct result of the quality and angle of light. Simply seeing something we think is interesting and pointing a camera at it does not translate to making a good photograph. It is critical to have good light quality and if it doesn't exist we should generally pass up the situation and try to come back when conditions are better. I think most of us, even the professionals, are occasionally guilty of trying to make a good photograph under poor light conditions, usually because we can't or don't want to come back later when the light is better. Learning to see and use light properly is the one single element above everything else that can dramatically improve the quality of our photographs. I really don't feel this can be emphasized too much.

 

Stefan--Your comments here are exactly why you should stay involved with this forum. The forum very much needs people who will give honest criticism. The problem that arises is that after many communications back and forth, forum members begin to feel a friendship with each other, even without ever meeting face to face. That sense of friendship makes it difficult to offer real criticism for fear of offending someone. In that context, it becomes important to have someone who is willing to be blunt and say what needs to be said. Perhaps I'm wrong about you, but my impression is that you are not the kind of person to back away and leave just because one or two people disagree with your point of view.

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Evita--I find myself agreeing with you philosophically and understand the points you are making. However, in this specific case I would say you probably haven't been involved with the forum long enough to know Stuart's work very well. He has improved dramatically from just a couple of years ago and takes huge quantities of photos, not because he wants to have a lot of images to post, but because he is passionate about photography. I don't know of any forum members who are more willing to take criticism and learn from it that he is. His images also show that he often has long and meaningful interactions with the people he photographs.

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Evita,

 

I think your voice makes a real contribution to the forum.

 

I would like to explain to you my remarks about preferring to take photos of people in the Himalayas to taking them of people in my home town. But, first you need to understand I am not arguing or saying what is good or what is bad. I'm merely telling you what I've wanted to do, and a few thoughts about it. I myself think it's at least a little odd that I'm not interested in taking photos of people where I live, nor do I want to have pictures taken of me.

 

I think a lot of photography is a reaction to the unusual, or the beautiful. When I'm in the Himalayas everything is interesting to me. The expressions of the people seem much more transparent. They seem less self-conscious. Where I live people put a fair amount of energy into hiding their feelings. This is one of the things that makes pictures of children appealing. Because I spend so little time in the Himalayas, I want to preserve those memories. I've noticed in myself when traveling more curiosity and less being judgmental than when I'm at home. This openness in myself is one of the great attractions for me of travel. At home I think I know what things mean, and what's good and bad. Traveling, I accept much more as mystery. Some of this openness lasts when I return home, and then fades.

 

I've always thought it was interesting that there is a Travel section in the Photo Forum because wherever you are in the world, you're in someone's home. So if I take a shot in India it goes to the travel section. If an Indian does, it goes to the People section.

 

Then there's the whole question of taking pictures of human suffering... I'm glad people do. I think it helps us understand the world we're in, but I don't want my picture taken when I've just had a tragedy befall me.

 

Best,

 

Mitchell

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Guest imported_stefan_r

"""The problem that arises is that after many communications back and forth, forum members begin to feel a friendship with each other, even without ever meeting face to face."""

 

from a "friend" I expect even more honest words.... ;)

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Stefan gives some very good advice here and his work shows how he applies it to his own photography. Photography is all about light and many of us could improve our work by always remembering that. It is even more about the light than about the subject because the images we make either have or lack impact and appeal as a direct result of the quality and angle of light. Simply seeing something we think is interesting and pointing a camera at it does not translate to making a good photograph. It is critical to have good light quality and if it doesn't exist we should generally pass up the situation and try to come back when conditions are better. I think most of us, even the professionals, are occasionally guilty of trying to make a good photograph under poor light conditions, usually because we can't or don't want to come back later when the light is better. Learning to see and use light properly is the one single element above everything else that can dramatically improve the quality of our photographs. I really don't feel this can be emphasized too much.

 

Stefan--Your comments here are exactly why you should stay involved with this forum. The forum very much needs people who will give honest criticism. The problem that arises is that after many communications back and forth, forum members begin to feel a friendship with each other, even without ever meeting face to face. That sense of friendship makes it difficult to offer real criticism for fear of offending someone. In that context, it becomes important to have someone who is willing to be blunt and say what needs to be said. Perhaps I'm wrong about you, but my impression is that you are not the kind of person to back away and leave just because one or two people disagree with your point of view.

 

Brent - I admire how well you stated this.

 

John - It is worth repeating: I admire how well you stated this.

 

I have been looking in on this post from time to time with interest. Now I would like to jump in and add that when I posted a photo I thought worthy of this forum it was a bit of a shock to have Stefen's assesment of it. Right away I started into a reply, got it all typed out, and before submitting it clicked on the link to Stefen's site. I came back to my post, read it, then deleted almost all of it.

 

The shock was enough to wake me up to what was missing in my pictures. I spend time on the forum because I want to learn, and what I see posted here tells me it is the best place to learn it.

 

So I would like to say "Thank You" to Stefen for the wake up and the time he has given to further comment and show how to be better, and at the same time to know it is my work, my point of view.

 

The same "Thank You" also goes out to all who take the time to look and especially to comment with the good and bad.

 

Richard

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  • 2 weeks later...
I think a lot of photography is a reaction to the unusual, or the beautiful. When I'm in the Himalayas everything is interesting to me. The expressions of the people seem much more transparent. They seem less self-conscious. Where I live people put a fair amount of energy into hiding their feelings. This is one of the things that makes pictures of children appealing....

 

Mitchell, i understand what you are saying, i think for a lot of people it's the same, but people around us are not less interesting, the difference is that it is more difficult to connect because it takes more work on the photographers (our) side to see the unusual, to get out the unusual of the ordinary everyday life. but if you succeed it is rewarding!

 

sorry for the late reponse, holidays interferred ;)

 

thanks to those who think my words make sense, i know i'm not an easy person to get along at times, but i do agree with Stefan Rohner, from a "friend" i expect more than from a "stranger", even if i sometimes don't like what i need to hear. :)

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Evita -

 

I think one more thing is happening when we don't take pictures of people in our normal surroundings, though your observation of our not noticing the what we're used to (the "odinary") is no doubt the biggest reason. We also tend not to photograph people and things near where we live because we know we can always photograph them so we don't get around to it. For example, most New Yorkers have never visited places like the Statue of Liberty.

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