Traveling with the M240

[JimKasson]

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The fact that you were the first to write about it begs the question though: did nobody else notice it? Do most people just never push the files that much?

 

So, the question to people with a M240. Did you ever notice the green shadows problem in normal use?

 

Is trying to use the camera in "ISO-less" mode normal use?

 

I found it by accident when I was trying to find out what the max in-camera ISO you should use. With the M9, it's somewhere between 160 and 640; you'll do better pushing it in post than turning up the ISO further than that. With the M240, there's no easy answer. What I ended up doing when I can't ETTR at base ISO is planning to push it a stop or two in post. That gives me some film-like highlight characteristics and greater effective dynamic range than cranking up the in-camera ISO to push the histogram to the right.

 

Jim

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[JimKasson]

If, your WATE isn't sharp then you need to send it back for a CLA. Sharpness hasn't been a problem for me with that lens and the LV just makes it such a perfect travel and generally fantastic lens.

 

Rick, thank you so much for this. I had written the WATE off because of those old M9 and NEX7 tests I did. I just performed a new comparison of the WATE at 18mm and the 18mm Super-Elmar on the M240. I looked at the corners and the center, and at f/5.6 and f/8, they're not far apart. I'm going to spend some more time analyzing the images (I did a whole aperture series on each), but I you've lifted the veils from my eyes, and I am deeply grateful.

 

Jim

[JimKasson]

Rick, and anyone else who's interested,

 

I made two Photoshop images with labeled layers of all apertures of the WATE set at 18mm and the 18mm Super-Elmar, (let's call it the TE) one cropped the the center of the image, and one to the upper right corner. The same tree was used in both images. To compare lens performance at a particular f-stop, or to compare performance at two different stops, open in Photoshop, turn on the two layers you're interested in, turn off the intermediate layers, and toggle back and forth.

 

 

http://www.kasson.com/ll/WATE%2018%20TEM%20corner%20cropped.psd

 

http://www.kasson.com/ll/WATE%2018%20TEM%20center%20cropped.psd

 

My conclusions:

 

 

• The WATE has two or three tenths of a stop less light transmission.
  
• Center sharpness at f/4 slightly favors the TE.
  
• At the center, there's not much to choose between the two lenses at f/5.6 and f/8.
  
• In the center, it's all downhill after f/8, but f/11 is usable, and even f/16 in a pinch.
  
• The corners in the WATE are soft at f/4, as soft as they are at f/22.
  
• The corners in the TE are pretty darned good at f/4, but they're better at f/5.6. f/8 is about the same.
  
• The WATE corners are close, but slightly worse than the TE at f/5.6
  
• The WATE corners are a match for the TE's at f/8, f/11, and f/16.
  

 

Do you think my WATE is up to snuff? I may do some flare tests. I trust my TE a lot, and would like to learn to trust the WATE, too (just not wide open).

 

Jim

[thighslapper]

The fact that you were the first to write about it begs the question though: did nobody else notice it? Do most people just never push the files that much?

So, the question to people with a M240. Did you ever notice the green shadows problem in normal use?

 

1. Noticed - yes

2. Yes - it's bonkers to do it to this extent.

3. Normal use - never.

 

I've dug out a selection of hopelessly underexposed images and tried +100 shadow recovery in LR and in most it is barely visible.

 

It's an interesting observation, but of minimal practical relevance. In a few photos where extreme shadow recovery is needed you need a lot of other corrections to get a half way acceptable image ..... and desaturating a bit of green locally is the least of your problems....

[JimKasson]

Jim

Did you send the RX-1 in to Sony for repair? Any resolve as yet?

 

The RX-1 arrived back from Sony in Laredo, TX today. It appears to be fixed, although I haven't checked it out completely. In addition to whatever they did internally, they replaced the rear LCD display or display cover -- not sure why, but I can tell because the new one doesn't have a scratch on it. The paperwork that came back with the camera says they replaced the main board and a lens part.

 

The camera came back with the Sony metal lens cap like the one the camera came with, although I'd sent it in with a cheap plastic one. I think they thought they were doing me a favor by substituting a classier, more expensive part, but I liked the lighter one better. Ah, well. Now I'll have two of the metal ones.

 

No charge.

 

Jim

[algrove]

The RX-1 arrived back from Sony in Laredo, TX today. It appears to be fixed, although I haven't checked it out completely. In addition to whatever they did internally, they replaced the rear LCD display or display cover -- not sure why, but I can tell because the new one doesn't have a scratch on it. The paperwork that came back with the camera says they replaced the main board and a lens part.

 

The camera came back with the Sony metal lens cap like the one the camera came with, although I'd sent it in with a cheap plastic one. I think they thought they were doing me a favor by substituting a classier, more expensive part, but I liked the lighter one better. Ah, well. Now I'll have two of the metal ones.

 

No charge.

 

Jim

 

At least you did not have to send it out of the country for these repairs. Sounds like decent service to me.

[jdlaing]

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At least you did not have to send it out of the country for these repairs. Sounds like decent service to me.

 

Oh it went out of the country.

[JimKasson]

Sounds like decent service to me.

 

Given that it broke -- and that was either entirely or partially my fault -- I can't complain about the process of getting it fixed.

 

Jim

[algrove]

Oh it went out of the country.

 

But you did not pay for out of country repair service. Makes me think Sony will offer similar service for the a7r should they need service. Hope their lug nuts stay attached.

[Surge]

Thinking that Leica follows us is just nonsense.

 

Example- Many of us reported the M shut down problem mostly while using the EVF on LUF. In mid August I have a 2 hour set down with CS Solms. They were so intrigued by the idea of shutdowns while using the EVF, that they brought in their own camera to match my settings in order to see if later they could emulate the problem. They told me to my face they had never had shut downs occur when using the EVF and had never heard of it before then. They are on top of nothing. It took FW Beta testers to get them to acknowledge the problem in late September/early October with overwhelming evidence.

 

Don't really follow why you're complaining... Leica actually sat down with you for 2 hours and tried to replicate the problem? Seems like very good service to me. Try getting that from Nikon or Fuji -- you'd be lucky to get a personal email reply.

[algrove]

Don't really follow why you're complaining... Leica actually sat down with you for 2 hours and tried to replicate the problem? Seems like very good service to me. Try getting that from Nikon or Fuji -- you'd be lucky to get a personal email reply.

 

But during the sit down they said it had never happened to any of them. Then a few weeks later many beta testers complained of the same thing. At first the beta testers were told the same thing, but Leica recanted and admitted it is a problem.

 

So what do I take from all this? I wasted 2 hours of my vacation after traveling 5000 miles to Europe. Some of the sit down had to do with cable release problems many members were having with the M240. Keep in mind I had my M lockup in the factory showroom and I was told it does not happen. Had to remove the battery for that lockup right in front of 3 Leica staffers.

[efreed2754]

But during the sit down they said it had never happened to any of them. Then a few weeks later many beta testers complained of the same thing. At first the beta testers were told the same thing, but Leica recanted and admitted it is a problem.

 

So what do I take from all this? I wasted 2 hours of my vacation after traveling 5000 miles to Europe. Some of the sit down had to do with cable release problems many members were having with the M240. Keep in mind I had my M lockup in the factory showroom and I was told it does not happen. Had to remove the battery for that lockup right in front of 3 Leica staffers.

 

Lou, understand your frustration and as a leica user I very much appreciate your effort and time.

 

Perhaps the problem was the level of management you were dealing with in Solms. If functionaries their only authority may have been status quo. If their culture is hierarchical, only more senior management may have the authority and courage to admit to problems?

 

Ed

[algrove]

Lou, understand your frustration and as a leica user I very much appreciate your effort and time.

 

Perhaps the problem was the level of management you were dealing with in Solms. If functionaries their only authority may have been status quo. If their culture is hierarchical, only more senior management may have the authority and courage to admit to problems?

 

Ed

 

Thanks Ed.

Stefan Daniel was right in the showroom when my lockup occurred. At CS Solms, the boss was also in the room. The only thing they wanted from me was all my settings when lockups occurred which they duplicated on one of their M's. It is a German company so there is a very strong hierarchal culture. I ran a German company years ago and I know how it works.

 

RickLeica seems to feel they just had had no experience with this before I arrived. If that is the case, it just confirms to me the camera was released before being ready for front stage and without proper testing. Keep in mind after nearly 9 months on the street, they still do not have a fix for this.

[Delcredere]

Lou, understand your frustration and as a leica user I very much appreciate your effort and time.

 

Perhaps the problem was the level of management you were dealing with in Solms. If functionaries their only authority may have been status quo. If their culture is hierarchical, only more senior management may have the authority and courage to admit to problems?

 

Ed

 

You have put your finger on a very interesting issue. I have been trying to figure out what is going on in Leica with all the obvious problems from lugs, to EVF lock up and the failure timely to produce simple accessories from the R adaptor to the Multigrip. Of course I may be completely wrong but I wonder if the senior management are both out of control and failing to control their functions, with disintegrated corporate discipline and collective responsibility...

[sisoje]

You have put your finger on a very interesting issue. I have been trying to figure out what is going on in Leica with all the obvious problems from lugs, to EVF lock up and the failure timely to produce simple accessories from the R adaptor to the Multigrip. Of course I may be completely wrong but I wonder if the senior management are both out of control and failing to control their functions, with disintegrated corporate discipline and collective responsibility...

 

.... I on the other hand, have no "problems" like that. I have shot with my M9 while (impatiently) waiting for my m240. Still do (with both cameras). Enjoy them when I use them. I don't dread over corporate politics, beta testing with customers and all other "negative stuff". I am happy that I can use digital rangefinder today. Period.

If my Leica gets broken, I will send it for repair. If there is a "recall" for it, I will send it for upgrade. All this what you mentioned in regards with M240 is the reality we live with in today's world. Recalls are happening with any new products. Being Japanese, German or US made... I will use Leica until I get unhappy with it for what ever reason. Enough to sell it and move on to something better suiting my needs...

 

Sure, Leica's policies and executions are not ideal, sometimes not even close to what we all expect. I still think the brand is doing great and delivering interesting products for such a small and old company for today's standards. Just look at Hasselblad... You see?...

[jaapv]

Thanks Ed.

Stefan Daniel was right in the showroom when my lockup occurred. At CS Solms, the boss was also in the room. The only thing they wanted from me was all my settings when lockups occurred which they duplicated on one of their M's. It is a German company so there is a very strong hierarchal culture. I ran a German company years ago and I know how it works.

 

RickLeica seems to feel they just had had no experience with this before I arrived. If that is the case, it just confirms to me the camera was released before being ready for front stage and without proper testing. Keep in mind after nearly 9 months on the street, they still do not have a fix for this.

Still, unless it was close to 40 Centigrade in the Leica factory, these are not the "standard" lockups. Many users don't experience the problem. Leica should solve this for you on an individual basis.

[dwbell]

Still, unless it was close to 40 Centigrade in the Leica factory, these are not the "standard" lockups. Many users don't experience the problem. Leica should solve this for you on an individual basis.

 

Sorry what? You said in the temp lock up thread that the camera is rated to 40 deg? So would it be too wild an assumption to say they have a temperature controlled test bench that would go to 40 deg C? And as pointed out include a tolerance margin above that?

 

They surely wouldn't have to wait for a really hot day in Solms to happenstance upon problems WITHIN the specified operating ranges?

 

Or did I misunderstand you again? As usual?

[jaapv]

That was not what I was saying at all. I said Algrove's lockup in the Leica factory is unlikely to be the lockup that appears to be related to a high temperature. The temperature one is probably experienced by all cameras thus a bug, his lockup may well have been an individual fault in his camera.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[dwbell]

That was not what I was saying at all. I said Algrove's lockup is unlikely to be the lockup that appears to be related to a high temperature.

 

Ah ok, sorry.

 

Then so is mine, as I've not been near 40deg fr months an have lock ups.

So it's 'our' individual problem, I guess....

[pieterpronk]

How can we be sure Algrove and dwbell's lock ups have been the "individual" ones, and yours, Jaap, is the "general" one?

 

Just because Leica said so?

 

Besides in other threads plenty of people have reported this problem while stating it did not happen in conditions anywhere near 40 degrees. To be honest, from reading these forums I would say the "40 degree lockup" seems more individual than the "at any temperature lockup".

 

While nothing to do with the evf lock up problem: I had my first lock up without the EVF btw. Lost my last taken picture with that one. It just vanished. It was one of the better pictures I took that evening as well.