What do you want in the next digital M?

[marcg]

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This thread is asking about the next digital M but by extension it is asking whether the new M240 has failed.

 

Here's a question from a different direction.

Of course, we don't know what the next model will be like - but anyway:-

 

when the next M is released, will the M240 hold its place as a classic and be sought after or held onto in the same way that I think pretty well all other Leica RFs are - or will people be getting rid of their 240s and will they tend to be viewed by most people as a glitch in the Leica legacy - maybe a bit like the M5?

 

In terms of digital cameras, I have a sense that the M9 - and especially the Monochrom will hold their place as great classics - especially if they are the last CCD Leicas ever made - truly Leica in their excellence and simplicity. Can the 240 do the same?

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[marcg]

Ta - but for instance, will people who are trying to buy in to the M system for the first time see the 240 as a way of doing so or will they prefer to go for an M9?

[Peter H]

..........when the next M is released, will the M240 hold its place as a classic and be sought after or held onto in the same way that I think pretty well all other Leica RFs are - or will people be getting rid of their 240s and will they tend to be viewed by most people as a glitch in the Leica legacy - maybe a bit like the M5?

 

.............................

 

 

 

Most of the improvements in the M over the M9 yield genuine photographic benefits for me. Isn't that a far more important consideration than whether either camera is regarded as a classic? There's nothing wrong with making a great camera a little better is there?

[marcg]

There's nothing wrong with making a great camera a little better is there?

Nothing at all ... but is this what they have done? From what I read on this forum most of the time, I get the impression that Leica have improved handling, made some progress technologically - but maybe not achieved any or any particular improvement in IQ - other than what one might natural expect from the camera's higher resolution. I also get a sense that it is quite glitchy and needs a loft of firmware improvement.

Do you think that I have misunderstood the situation?

Did the M9 suffer the same kind of criticisms at the same stage of its introduction?

[Jeff S]

Did the M9 suffer the same kind of criticisms at the same stage of its introduction?

 

Maybe more...color issues until FW fixes, cracked sensors, red edge, SD card struggles, buffer issues, discreet mode bugs (apparently still not fixed...see recent threads), etc.

 

And many still think b/w files not as good as with the M8. Plus complaints about taking away top display, 2m frame lines and sapphire screen.

 

Some folks have short memories.

 

Jeff

[lct]

...I get the impression that Leica have improved handling, made some progress technologically - but maybe not achieved any or any particular improvement in IQ - other than what one might natural expect from the camera's higher resolution. I also get a sense that it is quite glitchy and needs a loft of firmware improvement.

Do you think that I have misunderstood the situation?

Did the M9 suffer the same kind of criticisms at the same stage of its introduction?

Some people like yours truly did not like much the M9 that they found too slow, still too noisy and with an IQ somewhat inferior to that of the M8 in black and white and also in colour with IR-cut filters. Just slight differences to be honest but, as far as i'm concerned, spending the big bucks for the M9 was out of question. Now all i can say IQ wise is that the M240 has indeed more resolution and matches very well the results of my M8.2 that i still use with the latter. M240 glitches? If you intend to use it in LV/EVF mode intensively i don't think it is mature enough to be honest. But in classic mode, aside from too slow startup times, it is probably the best M i've ever used so far, at least compared to my 0.72x and 0.68x M bodies since the seventies. FWIW.

[marcg]

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Very helpful. Thanks

[Peter H]

....... If you intend to use it in LV/EVF mode intensively i don't think it is mature enough to be honest. But in classic mode, aside from too slow startup times, it is probably the best M i've ever used so far, at least compared to my 0.72x and 0.68x M bodies since the seventies. FWIW.

 

I agree 100%.

[Borbarad]

This thread is asking about the next digital M but by extension it is asking whether the new M240 has failed.

 

Here's a question from a different direction.

Of course, we don't know what the next model will be like - but anyway:-

 

when the next M is released, will the M240 hold its place as a classic and be sought after or held onto in the same way that I think pretty well all other Leica RFs are - or will people be getting rid of their 240s and will they tend to be viewed by most people as a glitch in the Leica legacy - maybe a bit like the M5?

 

In terms of digital cameras, I have a sense that the M9 - and especially the Monochrom will hold their place as great classics - especially if they are the last CCD Leicas ever made - truly Leica in their excellence and simplicity. Can the 240 do the same?

 

 

Well, i don't think a comparison to an M5 is neither fair nor correct in a technical way

 

As for regarding the M240 as a classic: No.

 

The M9(P) will be a classic, due to its core and basic rangefinder nature and of course the CCD - it has a unique character in the digital camera world.

 

Once Leica decided to have a level playing field with the rest of the pack by including the technical wizardry the once so unique rangefinder has to be compared. And that's where the M240 just fails and lacks compared to the OMDs, PENs, GHs, RX1r, 5D MKIII, D800e 4D etc.

 

So, therefore while the M9(P) and the M Monochrom will be regarded as true classics the M240 will be more of a lessons learned.

 

B

[Guest borge]

The ability for the camera to make espresso on demand.

It's about as realistic as many of the wishes in this thread, so I couldn't resist.

[Paul J]

(5) Built in WIFI to connect with a PC for transmission without having to remove card.

 

+1. If some can stick a wifi system in a tiny SD card, surely Leica can stick a decent sized one in a camera to create an adhoc connection to Laptop, iPad or iPhone. Perhaps adding wifi to the multifunction grip.

 

Most of my work is shot tethered so this would be an absolute dream as there is an awful lot of downtime in plugging in, connecting, and dropped connections from dodgy cords and connecters etc.

 

As a side note Paul, I know someone who shoots plugged into a laptop in a backpack for the kind of work you do, have you experimented with that?

[lanetomlane]

Would like to get my hands on a "this generation" M before I start thinking of the next.

 

Cheers, Tom

[jamriman]

- stiffer speed dial with a detent at Auto (for changing shutter speed by feel at night)

- easier to read ISO selection (like the array on M8/M9/MM)

- faster on the fly +/- exposure compensation

- delete movie button

- delete large red Leica logo

- faster start-up

- programmable front button

- an old-fashioned shutter re-cock lever

- an EVF that looked as beautiful as a Leicameter !

 

Finally the old fashion shutter re-cock lever! That's why I refuse to part with my outdated Rd1!!

[ModernMan]

Here is the answer for you just like the m5 people will realize that it was not a glitch but. Truly an eveloutionary camera the M5 is one of the finest m film cameras leica ever made .

 

No, in fact, the M5 is emblematic of product design failure, having such poor user appeal that it put Leica in financial peril. Even Leica's decision to end-of-life the M4 was not enough to drive customers to the M5. Fortunately, the Canadian subsidiary introduced the M4-2 and M4-P which saved the Leica M from extinction.

[george +]

No, in fact, the M5 is emblematic of product design failure, having such poor user appeal that it put Leica in financial peril. Even Leica's decision to end-of-life the M4 was not enough to drive customers to the M5. Fortunately, the Canadian subsidiary introduced the M4-2 and M4-P which saved the Leica M from extinction.

 

I had one for the last 42 years. And think it is a great camera.

You are of course free to disagree.

But may I ask if you owned one, used one or . . . . ?

Many thanks in advance for the clarification.

[jamriman]

I had one for the last 42 years. And think it is a great camera.

You are of course free to disagree.

But may I ask if you owned one, used one or . . . . ?

Many thanks in advance for the clarification.

 

I loved mine when I had it. I just got too lazy and spoiled by digital.

[ModernMan]

Just buy a spare red dot and stick it on one of he multi gimmick wonders that are available

 

That won't do it. The Sony A7r has the same boxy clunky look as my old Nikon F, At that time the Leicaflex SL was much more organic and pleasing to handle (although admittedly less functional). The R9 (and even the S) also appears to have that same organic and ergonomic design quality. I'd like Leica to deliver that physical design quality with a level of functionality and usability that honors their great past achievements.

 

This is not a call for a rebadged "multi gimmick winder", it is a call for Leica to step up and deliver a superb photographic instrument.

 

And you might consider that at the time the M9 was introduced, the feature set of the M240 would have been described as a "multi gimmick winder". That's progress -- not only in the camera but in the mindset of the Leica clientele.

 

One more thing: maybe the dot should be the black version?

[dwbell]

Just buy a spare red dot and stick it on one of he multi gimmick wonders that are available

 

Do you mean like Leica do with Panasonic cameras?

Or do you mean "multi gimmick wonders" as in the M240, which has Live View, detachable EVF, does video, has an attachable stereo microphone, takes zoom lenses......

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[ModernMan]

I had one for the last 42 years. And think it is a great camera.

You are of course free to disagree.

But may I ask if you owned one, used one or . . . . ?

Many thanks in advance for the clarification.

 

I've no doubt that the M5 was finely crafted and had appeal to many Leica aficionados of the day. Its success in the market was however, limited. The design elements it introduced (elongated body shape, new strap lugs placement, etc.) were withdrawn in successor products where Leica reverted to the classic M design. By contrast, the M4 before it and subsequent M6 outsold it by a considerable margin. So the M5 was something of an aberration in the M product evolution. Hardly a design classic.

 

Yes, I've used one, but never opted to buy one. My preference was an M4, M4-P or M6, primarily because of size and proportion. Having said that, I think the M5 does get less respect than it deserves from an engineering perspective, but it was evidently not the product that Leica needed to bring to market at that time.

[rpsawin]

A reasonable, affordable price tag.