IkarusJohn Posted October 16, 2013 Share #721 Posted October 16, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thank you Karl-Heinz. I have ordered the Hawk's Factory adapter. The Phigmenttech adapter is out of stock. I think I will go with the Novoflex NEX/NIK adapter - I have had a good run with Novoflex. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 16, 2013 Posted October 16, 2013 Hi IkarusJohn, Take a look here The Sony A7 thread [Merged]. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
BerndReini Posted October 16, 2013 Share #722 Posted October 16, 2013 Sony is on Leica's heels as far as offering a full-frame solution for M lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted October 16, 2013 Share #723 Posted October 16, 2013 Sony is on Leica's heels as far as offering a full-frame solution for M lenses. Really? Maybe Leica will make a few bucks from selling lenses? Imagine that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisoje Posted October 17, 2013 Share #724 Posted October 17, 2013 ... I would say Sony just leapfrogged Leica with FF AF interchangeable lens camera having 24 or 36MP sensors, all in a package about the size of my RX-1. Wow! Leica M should not be auto focus system. Ever! It is a different kind of tool all together. If you need autofocus, the choice is so great. Regarding manual focus (and rangefinder), Leica has nothing to worry. There will always be rich guys and crazy die hard Leica shooters who will take Leica M over any latest Fuji, Sony, Panasonic, etc... Just imagine next Leica model being more in demand than M240. The wait would be even more ridicilous... This little company can never deliver the numbers of Sony. For what they do, they will be just fine even with Sony 36mp as a competiton. The only worry I have for Leica is that they are too close (geographically) to Hasselblad. What if the same "virus" gets to Germany? Then, we would be in trouble... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted October 17, 2013 Share #725 Posted October 17, 2013 ...all in a package about the size of my RX-1. Wow! No! W X H X D (mm) M240 139 x 80 x 42 RX-1 113 x 65 x 70 A7R 127 x 99 x 48 (excluding protrusions!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Chen Posted October 17, 2013 Share #726 Posted October 17, 2013 What I don't know is if all adapters are wide enough for FF so that they don't vignette any of my lenses. K.H., Plesae find how David in NYC used Hawk adapter on SONY VG900 with a 24MP FF sensor in the following link. You may find the samples in his Flickr that are done on VG900 and by Leica 21/1.4, 35/1.4 and 75/2.0. However, there is no telling whether David made any action of cropping. http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/page/6/ How I identify that the adapter is of Hawk brand? There is a string of "Made in Taiwan" on the periphal,, the hallmark of Hawk adapter. Hawker owner told me that it is the version 1 product without a tab. What is being sold is the version 2.5 with a tab. Best Regards, Thomas Chen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillavoider Posted October 17, 2013 Share #727 Posted October 17, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think… it looks beautiful. anything looks beautiful with a noctilux attached Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanyasi Posted October 17, 2013 Share #728 Posted October 17, 2013 Luminous Landscape review is good, makes it sounds like it's a no brainer for M Lenses. Ming Thein's is strange. I guess he's being paid by certain people to write certain things (there have been some pretty bold statements made in his past reviews that I have found not to be true). His article just sounds like sour grapes and misdirection. I don't for one moment buy the notion that you need a tripod to extract resolution in high Megapixel cameras. I hand hold the Blad H and P65+ all the time and the resolution is not hindered at all. I take issue with the inferences regarding Ming Thein's ethics. I read his blog on a fairly regular basis. He writes thoughtful articles about all aspects of photography. He is knowleadable about the mechanics of camera equipment and the aesthetics of photography. He has used a wide variety of equipment, but seems to stick with his equipment choices for more than a couple of months. And most tellingly, he responds thoughtfully to every comment posted to his blog and that can be well over a 100 for a given article. Sharpies don't do that. Most importantly, he is a damn good photographer who is in it because he loves it. It is one thing to have respectful disagreements, it is something else to cast what appear to be unfounded aspersions on someone's integrity. This may be the Internet, but that does not mean it is open season on character. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted October 17, 2013 Share #729 Posted October 17, 2013 No! W X H X D (mm) M240 139 x 80 x 42 RX-1 113 x 65 x 70 A7R 127 x 99 x 48 (excluding protrusions!) Well, I own 2 of the three above, but with dimensions aside when actually holding the RX-1 versus the M, the Sony has a much smaller feel to it in my hands. Seems MR of LL agrees for this and many other reasons. Is the M a $5000 advantage over the a7 with the same sized sensor? IMHO, it should be cheaper to have RF focusing, but now it's cheaper to have AF and with the ability to use M and R lenses. Leica's QC is a disaster so far this year starting with lug nuts and now new lenses that overly flare. They can pump out Vario whatevers, but find it hard to release an adapter which has no electronics and find it difficult to release a hand grip I was using at Photokina about 13 months ago. What's going on with our specialty camera maker? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted October 17, 2013 Share #730 Posted October 17, 2013 anything looks beautiful with a noctilux attached Guess the large looking grip was necessary due to the huge Noctilux. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModernMan Posted October 17, 2013 Share #731 Posted October 17, 2013 I think it is not a rangefinder. Hmmm... Isn't it axiomatically true that the A7 (and generally camera systems that have a means to determine focus, like contrast or phase detection AF points) have a "rangefinder"? Its just not a parallax (or stereoscopic, if you like) optical coincidence rangefinder, like on our Leicas. Rangefinders use a various means to determine distance, for example Leica's sport optics division makes various rangefinders which are opto-electronic (rather than parallax optical coincidence). Apparently golfers use them to help select the right club based on measured distance to the pin. One could certainly say that it "the A7/A7r" is not an optical coincidence rangefinder camera". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglasf13 Posted October 17, 2013 Share #732 Posted October 17, 2013 Placed my order today. This is a no brainer. My M series cameras are fantastic for the 21mm to 90mm primes I have, and I will keep them and keep using them. There is no substitute for the coupled rangefinder, when that is the tool for the job. The M(240) didn't do it for me. Holding one in my hands, then picking up my Monochrom (visually almost identical), the M9(240) was bigger and heavier - not something I normally mind, but the Monochrom is really quite heavy enough. My problem with the M(240) is more that it tries to be all things to all men, and there it falls down. The beauty of the previous Ms is their simplicity. I know the M9 & Monochrom are not really that simple, but they play to the core of photography that the M3 embodies, and I love them for that. The M(240) is a confused puppy for me - sure, it is probably a better CRF camera than the M9, but the rest is a kludge, and I'm not convinced the CMOSIS sensor actually has better IQ than the CCD in the M9. The A7 is not really a competitor for the M camera - it isn't a rangefinder, and it has no pretensions to the history that the M has. It seems to be a pure and simple electronic computer - the camera that Leica should have made. I'm relieved there will be no charger - boy, am I sick of chargers. I suspect I can plug the USB cable into my iPhone charger, my car charger or any other flaking charger that is tangled up in my electronics drawer I agree with Ming about the lenses - I will be using my Leica primes :-) Oh boy, Noctilux, Summilux 50, Summilux 75, Summilux 21, Summicron 90 - Yah Hoo! being able to focus off-centre is a huge issue (for me, one of the biggest failings of the M(240) - one of the features I use most with the D800E is the focus spot shutter noise? Meh cheap! Novoflex LEM adapter already sitting in the drawer! tripod? A very good photographer once said to me there are two types of photograph - those taken with a tripod and those that should have been taken with a tripod. Hopefully, with no mirror crash, 1/8000 will do the job hand held What's not to like, provided the IQ stacks up - now that's a biggy. Who'll sell me a Vario-Elmarit-R 28-90 at a reasonable price? PS - I don't really think this will hurt the M(240) that badly, provided the next iteration is more clearly focused. This camera will kill the X-Vario and (with the RX1) the X2 stone dead. I think it is very sad that Leica did not release a camera like this last May when we all thought they would. They have seriously missed the boat. dSLR is in a terrible place, and cameras like this and the RX1 and RX10 (I guess) are the future. CRF cameras like the M are never going to be mainstream again. So what is Leica to do? If they dust off an earlier (or current) project and tush it to market, what will the price be, and when can they actually deliver it, and how long before they sort out the quality control issues that have plagued almost every Leica camera since the M8. Sorry to sound pessimistic, but it seems to me that Leica has played this very badly. I disagree about the A7 killing the RX1. Fixed lens cameras have always coexisted with interchangeable lens cameras. The fixed lens allows for a sharper across the frame, faster lens at a small size, and the silent leaf shutter is a big advantage. I have interest in trading in my RX1 for an A7 + 35/2.8 that is less sharp in the corners (according to their mtfs.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macjonny1 Posted October 17, 2013 Share #733 Posted October 17, 2013 IMHO' date=' it should be cheaper to have RF focusing, but now it's cheaper to [/quote'] In this day it's always going to be more expensive for a mechanical specialty solution like a RF mechanism that has to be calibrated etc than an electronic chip. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted October 17, 2013 Share #734 Posted October 17, 2013 I disagree about the A7 killing the RX1. Fixed lens cameras have always coexisted with interchangeable lens cameras. The fixed lens allows for a sharper across the frame, faster lens at a small size, and the silent leaf shutter is a big advantage. I have interest in trading in my RX1 for an A7 + 35/2.8 that is less sharp in the corners (according to their mtfs.) Sorry, I wasn't clear - I meant the A7 & the RX1 (and probably the RX10) together pretty much kill the XV and the X2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted October 17, 2013 Share #735 Posted October 17, 2013 Just skim read this whole thread. Very interesting er, opinions aired earlier on. Indeed. My comments about Sony using the M mount were pie-in-the-sky, but then I didn't realise that the existing E-mount was actually big enough for full frame ... This post stood out (sorry, Olaf) I'll believe there's a 35-mm full-frame Sony NEX when I see it. It doesn't make sense to put a 35-mm full-frame sensor in a camera with Sony E mount. If they did, they'd have to make a whole new line of lenses anyway—so they could just as well introduce an entirely new, wider mount altogether which would make more sense. E mount is for APS-C lenses, period. There are no legacy E-mount lenses anyone would want to re-use on a full-frame NEX body. And the existing A mount would not make sense either, due to the long flange distance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted October 17, 2013 Share #736 Posted October 17, 2013 I have been trying to prod Leica for a long time on this forum to wake up and get their electronics house in order. By that I meant both hardware and firmware. Despite, their poor responsiveness, I have spent my money with them, first on the M8 and various lenses and lastly on the X Vario. If this camera were any brand other than Leica with its nostalgia, customers would not tolerate the poor reliability, generally slow customer service, extremely slow firmware fixes and always being a bit behind technically but charging premium prices for things like LCD screens EVFs, processing speed, etc. With the M9, Leica had the advantage of relatively small size with a FF sensor with no AA filter, and they could command a premium price. The Sony RX-1 came along and the advantage started to diminish but having interchangeable lenses was still missing. Now the A7 for $1698 offers everything but the RF and not having an AA filter and outdoes the M in almost every other aspect. Then throw in the A7r and you have greater resolution, far more responsive camera for $5K less and most likely much more reliable. I like many others on this forum have already placed an order. The X-Vario may have to go as there would be no reason to keep it. The size advantage for the zoom lens is small and with the hand grip it is larger. Further, Leica can't even seem to get their act together to get out a rubber finger loop 4 months after the camera was available and 2 months after it was promised. I hope Leica wakes up soon. Counting on a few nostalgic geezers with money to play with does not make much of a market. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
naturephoto1 Posted October 17, 2013 Share #737 Posted October 17, 2013 I bit the bullet and Pre-ordered the A7r camera from B&H. I have never pre-ordered a camera in the past. I will handle the camera next week at PhotoPlus on October 24 and decide if I want to keep my Pre-order or wait for a more advanced camera to come from Sony. Along with the camera I ordered 3 extra batteries, AC charger, and Sony screen protector. I will be bringing to the table my full arsenal of Leica R lenses (16) to work with the camera along with my Minolta CLE MC 40mm f2 Rokkor-M lens (a tiny lens). I have been waiting since the Leica phased out the R system in 2009 for a FF digital home for my R lenses and in the meantime I have used the Lumix G1 and most recently my Fujifilm X-E1 which will become my 2nd camera. I will wait for the full reviews and for the reports of the performance of the WA Leica M lenses with the camera. If it is determined that the WA M lenses perform well with the camera, and if I can afford it I will try to purchase the M lenses probably in the 21 and 28mm focal lengths. Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted October 17, 2013 Share #738 Posted October 17, 2013 In this day it's always going to be more expensive for a mechanical specialty solution like a RF mechanism that has to be calibrated etc than an electronic chip. When you see what is being done with additive 3D printers today you will realize that this statement may no longer be true or at the minimum soon won't be true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted October 17, 2013 Share #739 Posted October 17, 2013 The A7R costs USD2,299 (with integrated grip and EVF). An equivalent M240 will set you back USD7,800, more than 3 times the price of the A7R. Why is the M240 so expensive? Like the M9, it is probably 90% built in Portugal. The sensor is built in Belgium. I appreciate that labour costs in Germany are high. But they simply just fit the sensor and apply the vinyl wrap. There is a steep red dot premium priced in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted October 17, 2013 Share #740 Posted October 17, 2013 Sorry, I wasn't clear - I meant the A7 & the RX1 (and probably the RX10) together pretty much kill the XV and the X2. Nah, the XV was already dead at launch and I thought the only buyer left for the X2 was I Shot IT, in which Leica owns some 25% or so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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