The Sony A7 thread [Merged]

[CheshireCat]

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By its very nature, RAW (not being an acronym) should be raw.

 

Like in Japanese restaurants, RAW fish is usually added some spice to match the taste of most customers

[CheshireCat]

its not the camera

 

DNG updated to allow RAW corrections: Digital Photography Review

 

it's the machine reading the file.

 

Nice try, but M9 uses DNG version 1.

[algrove]

What about the MM histogram since it is not a jpeg, but DNG histogram if I recall. Too late to dig up my manual right now.As mentioned it is DNG not RAW since to construct the histogram it must "process" the RAW image.

[Rick]

Again you are just talking about M lenses...

Looking at the lens profile, the 50 APO Cron looks more telecentric, but in fact you have to look at the effective ray angles to the exit pupil. It is a very compact lens design and it is no new finding that these designs may produce less optimal results on the A7R sensor. But it still does not mean "for all lenses". That's just your personal simplification.

Regardings the WATE: You obviously stll did not look into my article about the WATE, where I show edge crops from the A7R as well as from the Leica MM.

 

 

The 50 APO is near telecentric, compact design or not. It has nothing to do with my "personal simplification." You should go back and read my post again (#3836). I think Kirk missed it too.

 

And for the last time, I read your article, it adds nothing new here. Please, stop quoting yourself from your website. I read it, ok? The WATE has been known to be a good performer... because, it is near telecentric.

 

The WATE was designed after the introduction of the M8 which, required a newer design for the new crop digital sensor for super wide and for the fact that all lenses before this were designed for film. This was, as far as I can remember, Leica's first modern design for a digital sensor.

[Guest polygamer]

Hi, I have 21 Leica m mount lenses. After preliminary trials I am going through them trying them in real life.

 

I begin with a lens that is rather dear to me (also financially - it is my most expensive lens) because I like it for landscape and architecture:

my Leica Elmarit 2,8/21 ASPH.

 

First two pictures from the balcony on the SONY a7, JPEG ooc (there was light gray roof below to show vignetting),

first at f 2,8 then at f8:

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[Guest polygamer]

So, with the vignetting at f8 I can live.

 

What about corner softness of the new SONYs?

 

Two crops from the outer left middle, at 2,8 and at f8:

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[Guest polygamer]

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My conclusion: I do not need another 21mm lens (I have two more already).

 

My Leica 2,8/21 Elmarit ASPH will accompany me on the SONY a7 when travelling ...

[gpwhite]

Sony has been going through some difficult times recently, but surely they are not that desperate that they saw going after the Leica M market as vastly (!) broadening their customer base. I would think they are after bigger fish.

 

I agree that Sony cannot possibly consider the Leica M share as representing much of the market targeted by the A7/ FF products. On the other hand, the much larger volume D800 and its ilk are now in real trouble.

 

Besides, shutter vibration is another issue for Sony to resolve (at least for the A7R), as well as the WA ray angle challenge for its FF sensor, in order to compete with the Leica M's hand held strengths.

 

When the topic of Leica M lenses comes up in the Sony staff meetings, I imagine management says "Let them buy Otus from our partner! Otus are very good with our camera."

 

My view is that it is Leica, not Sony, who should be working late. Leica QA/QC has clearly declined, and this is in advance of the huge challenges of opening the new Wetzlar manufacturing operation. For instance, my new Noct 0.95 works beautifully on my A7R, but is just out of sync with the otherwise predictable focus of my M240.

[thompsonkirk]

Today I pixel-peeped five 'classic' M-mount lenses on the Sony A7, going from widest aperture down to f4 (not going smaller than f4 on the assumption that M9 is my camera body for anything but low light). I was looking for both color vignetting and corner smearing. I'm taking 'classic' to mean style of rendering, not necessarily age. They were:

 

--Pre-aspherical Summilux

--2007 1.5 Sonnar-C

--2.8 Elmar, last issue, with modern coating and fewer aperture blades

--5cm 1.4 Nikkor for Nikon S rangefinders, in Amadeo mount

--Millennium Nikkor-S in Amadeo mount

 

Pre-asph Lux: Best of the bunch. Luminance (BW) vignetting moves from dark to slight between f1.4 and 4, but there's no color shift in the corners. At f1.4, moderate corner smearing and noticeable chromatic aberration, but the smearing disappears entirely by f4.

 

Sonnar-C: Unacceptable. Lots of BW vignetting and Blue Channel color shift (hereafter B/CS) at f1.4; these characteristics continue to f4 with the B/CS actually increasing. Smearing and marked CA at f1.5; smearing decreases but doesn't go away at f4.

 

2.8 Elmar: BW vignetting and B/CS at f2.8; gentler BW vig at f4, but continuing B/CS. Always a bit of corner smear – not as good as the pre-A Lux, though much better than the Sonnar-C.

 

Vintage Nikkor: Lots of BW vig with no color shift at f1.4; B/CS increases as you stop down. From f1.4 to 4, soft corners, flare, and smearing. Unacceptable on A7 except as an interesting 'special effects' antique-looking lens. (Much nicer on M9!)

 

Millennium Nikkor: BW vig at f1.4, but no color shift. Slight B/CS appears at f4. Smears in corners at f1.4 and 2, decreasing to very little at 4.

 

Overall, corner color shift appeared primarily in the Blue channel, according to LR RGB measurements. I was surprised to see very little in the Red channel. Maybe that's a problem with A7r more than A7? .

 

I'll be using the 2.8 Elmar on A7 more than my peeping might suggest. In low light and high ISO at f2.8, it has enough DOF to use with focus-peaking; and the dark corners almost cover up the B/CS and look almost natural in low-light situations – as if one's eyes are focusing on the center of the image in the relative darkness. It's smaller and lighter; and I'm comfortable carrying it in my pocket, whereas my black-paint pre-A Lux and Millennium Nikkor are too minty for that sort of treatment.

 

The Sonnar-C's performance was a disappointment to me. I thought that using it with Sony focus peaking would avoid its problem of focus shift and make it a generally usable and not too fancy 50mm lens with nice bokeh.

 

Kirk

[thighslapper]

[quote name=gpwhite;2586442

 

My view is that it is Leica' date=' not Sony, who should be working late. Leica QA/QC has clearly declined, and this is in advance of the huge challenges of opening the new Wetzlar manufacturing operation. For instance, my new Noct 0.95 works beautifully on my A7R, but is just out of sync with the otherwise predictable focus of my M240.[/quote]

 

......... And where is the evidence that QC has declined. ????

 

Provide a percentage please ........... With a comparison to the past.......

 

Leica's output has increased and the number of reports of problems will inevitably go up too ..... But that doesn't mean that QC is worse .........

[algrove]

I have no idea what to answer to your question.

 

In my opinion CS Solms has no QC and the factory has cursory QC on new product. Yes, product output is increasing, but that only tells me that they need more AND better QC people, not the same number of people in QC/QA if it exists at all anymore.

 

I can give examples, but not here, not yet. PM me if you want a concrete, recent example.

[JimKasson]

I haven't finished my testing by any means, but I can't believe how good the Sony/Zeiss 55mm f/1.8 Sonnar FE is on the a7R. I may have gotten a particularly good sample.

 

Sony a7R testing, part 32 | The Last Word

 

And the Leica 90mm f/2 APO Summicron is a great match with the a7R, too.

 

http://blog.kasson.com/?p=4200

 

Jim

[ModernMan]

Whether Sony even wishes to deal with Leica wideangle lenses remains to be seen. They prefer to sell their own

...

 

They probably would prefer to sell their own -- if they had any. (full frame E mount wider than 35mm, that is.)

[ModernMan]

Today I pixel-peeped five 'classic' M-mount lenses on the Sony A7, going from widest aperture down to f4 (not going smaller than f4 on the assumption that M9 is my camera body for anything but low light). I was looking for both color vignetting and corner smearing. I'm taking 'classic' to mean style of rendering, not necessarily age. They were:

 

--Pre-aspherical Summilux

--2007 1.5 Sonnar-C

--2.8 Elmar, last issue, with modern coating and fewer aperture blades

--5cm 1.4 Nikkor for Nikon S rangefinders, in Amadeo mount

--Millennium Nikkor-S in Amadeo mount

 

Pre-asph Lux: Best of the bunch. Luminance (BW) vignetting moves from dark to slight between f1.4 and 4, but there's no color shift in the corners. At f1.4, moderate corner smearing and noticeable chromatic aberration, but the smearing disappears entirely by f4.

 

Sonnar-C: Unacceptable. Lots of BW vignetting and Blue Channel color shift (hereafter B/CS) at f1.4; these characteristics continue to f4 with the B/CS actually increasing. Smearing and marked CA at f1.5; smearing decreases but doesn't go away at f4.

 

2.8 Elmar: BW vignetting and B/CS at f2.8; gentler BW vig at f4, but continuing B/CS. Always a bit of corner smear – not as good as the pre-A Lux, though much better than the Sonnar-C.

 

Vintage Nikkor: Lots of BW vig with no color shift at f1.4; B/CS increases as you stop down. From f1.4 to 4, soft corners, flare, and smearing. Unacceptable on A7 except as an interesting 'special effects' antique-looking lens. (Much nicer on M9!)

 

Millennium Nikkor: BW vig at f1.4, but no color shift. Slight B/CS appears at f4. Smears in corners at f1.4 and 2, decreasing to very little at 4.

 

Overall, corner color shift appeared primarily in the Blue channel, according to LR RGB measurements. I was surprised to see very little in the Red channel. Maybe that's a problem with A7r more than A7? .

 

I'll be using the 2.8 Elmar on A7 more than my peeping might suggest. In low light and high ISO at f2.8, it has enough DOF to use with focus-peaking; and the dark corners almost cover up the B/CS and look almost natural in low-light situations – as if one's eyes are focusing on the center of the image in the relative darkness. It's smaller and lighter; and I'm comfortable carrying it in my pocket, whereas my black-paint pre-A Lux and Millennium Nikkor are too minty for that sort of treatment.

 

The Sonnar-C's performance was a disappointment to me. I thought that using it with Sony focus peaking would avoid its problem of focus shift and make it a generally usable and not too fancy 50mm lens with nice bokeh.

 

Kirk

 

And some more pixel peeping opinion on the A7r: 50mm summicron (tabbed), 75 and 90 Summicron APO's, and 135/3.4, all acceptable (in fact, much more than acceptable) to me, along with 28-90 R and 100mm apo macro R (both also with 2x apo extender). The 50/1.4 asph and 35/1.4 FLE II sadly just don't seem to make the make the cut (smearing).

[wildlightphoto]

I have no idea what to answer to your question.

 

In my opinion CS Solms has no QC and the factory has cursory QC on new product. Yes, product output is increasing, but that only tells me that they need more AND better QC people, not the same number of people in QC/QA if it exists at all anymore.

 

I can give examples, but not here, not yet. PM me if you want a concrete, recent example.

 

Whatever your experience (or anyone else's) it's statistically insignificant. Meaningful evidence that QC is slipping or is non-existent would compare a statistically significant sample of all product, faulty or otherwise, with a samples from past years' production.

[k-hawinkler]

I tried to combat shutter shock and/or vibrations with this setup.

 

Details here: The GetDPI Photography Forums - View Single Post - A7r - and why I'm keeping it ...

Please let me know if you think I succeeded. Thanks.

[Doc Henry]

Karl, impressive combo , no cable release ?

Is the Novoflex ring ? Thanks

Henry

[k-hawinkler]

Karl, impressive combo , no cable release ?

Is the Novoflex ring ? Thanks

Henry

 

 

Thanks Henry.

Just a 2 second delay for right now.

I will set it up so that I can activate the shutter with my iPhone.

 

Novoflex ASTAT-NEX and some RRS gear.

[3D-Kraft.com]

......... And where is the evidence that QC has declined. ????

 

Provide a percentage please ........... With a comparison to the past.......

 

Leica's output has increased and the number of reports of problems will inevitably go up too ..... But that doesn't mean that QC is worse .........

 

Of course, you will never get an official percentage from anyone. But given the fractional output of Leica M bodies compared to Sony A7/A7R and listening to these annoying reports about loose strap lugs and dead pixel columns (mine had to be in service due to both issues), this sheds no good light on Leica QC. I have not heard of quality problems with A7/A7R bodies so far.

 

Just a 2 second delay for right now.

I will set it up so that I can activate the shutter with my iPhone.

 

The current version of the remote app for Android forces the camera to store only JPEG on the SD memory card (I am not talking about the file transferred to the smartphone), regardless if RAW-JPEG was choosen in the menu settings. I assume that remote behaviour by iPhone will not be different. Hopefully Sony will fix this soon.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[wildlightphoto]

Of course, you will never get an official percentage from anyone. But given the fractional output of Leica M bodies compared to Sony A7/A7R and listening to these annoying reports about loose strap lugs and dead pixel columns (mine had to be in service due to both issues), this sheds no good light on Leica QC. I have not heard of quality problems with A7/A7R bodies so far.

 

Or there may be more whiners among Leica owners. Still no statistical basis for drawing a conclusion.