The Sony A7 thread [Merged]

[algrove]

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No camera, but I am ready to try R lenses with my Metabones R-E adapter which is very well built and come with a QR tripod mount built in to its mount. And Rich I have your rotating tripod collar coming just to see which R lenses it will work with.

 

If interested I can post a photo. Just let me know.

[Guest]

yes Luigi- this is also on my mind- the a7 is much less of a risk to carry around for casual shooting- than 10,000USD in the form of a summilux and M240.

 

some of the Pentacon lenses are pretty damn good- nice solid build quality and good look too. I think those old SLR lenses will match the sony A cameras very well -aesthetically and ergonomically.

 

After all the a7 is really modeled on a compact vintage SLR like the venerable Minolta XD-7- and can be set up to shoot the same with aperture or shutter priority, manual focusing, etc.

 

And the old manual focus SLR lenses are really quite small - not much larger than M equivalents. Plenty of very nice, fast lenses out there...

 

As for example FD 1.2/85 optically unchanged for decades now, or FD 1.2/55 Aspherical

Interesting comparing their ebay prices to one year ago, or only six months ago.

[naturephoto1]

No camera, but I am ready to try R lenses with my Metabones R-E adapter which is very well built and come with a QR tripod mount built in to its mount. And Rich I have your rotating tripod collar coming just to see which R lenses it will work with.

 

If interested I can post a photo. Just let me know.

 

Hi Lou,

 

After receiving confirmation that the Novoflex ASTAT-NEX rotating collar was back in stock at B&H yesterday, I ordered one this morning along with the Sony wired remote. After I placed my order the rotating collar was out of stock again. Anyway, now just twiddling my thumbs waiting for my A7r which may be held up for the new AC charger, but we will see.

 

By the way based upon my experience using my rotating collar on my Fujifilm X-E1, I would suggest using the rotating collar with the Novoflex adapter for the 28mm f2.8 Super Angulon PC, 35mm-70mm f4 Vario Elmar, 70mm-210mm f4 Vario Elmar, 80mm-200mm f4 Vario Elmar, 100mm f2.8 Apo Macro Elmarit, and the 180mm f3.4 Apo Telyt lenses.

 

Rich

[mirekti]

Is Sony the New Leica? | Leica BOSS

 

I love my M, and I don't plan on buying a Sony, but it's nice when one knows there's an alternative if needed.

[Peter H]

Where I am so far, for anyone who might be in a similar predicament, or be interested in further navel-gazing on the subject:

 

Will it be possible soon to create a sort of consensus-based list on Leica lenses and how they work with the A7R?

 

If, for example, my three favourite lenses (28 f2 ASPH, 35 1.4 ASPH FLE & 501.4 ASPH) produce better results on the Sony than they do on the M, then obviously the A7R becomes immensely attractive as a body that will work alongside or even instead of my M.

 

If, on the other hand, I'd have to buy new lenses to cover my preferred focal-length range, I'd have to be convinced that the quality of an entirely new kit is sufficiently superior to my Leica outfit to consider making a wholesale change. And then I'd have to decide between Sony, Nikon etc., etc… What I absolutely do not want is to end up with two camera systems, and the improvement would have to be great enough to compensate for the loss of the Rangefinder. I've completely had it with multiple systems, and the Leica M is the best single system for my purposes I've had for many a long year. But times change and throw up interesting opportunities and developments.

 

Maybe the Sony is so far superior to the M that even it's no so hot with some lenses, those it can use make it all worthwhile. But I don't know whether that's the case, or whether the differences are too small to justify all the agonising.

 

I know: just buy one and find out for myself. It's only money, after all!

 

Thank you for your patience.

[dwbell]

Face and eye tracking AF is revolutionising my candid / environmental portraits. Instead of focus, recompose and grab the shot before you or the sitter moves forwards, or backwards - and hoping for the best - I'm simply composing the entire frame as I want it, checking edges, leading lines etc and then a quick tap of my right thumb pad on the centre button, beep confirmation and release. Best is, this doesn't replace the centre focus point (which in itself is moveable), it's available at the same time. Want to know how deep your DoF is? Tap with the tip of the right thumb to quickly see the peaking estimation of depth. Subject in high animation with their hands? No problem, I'm in manual aperture on 2.8, manual shutter of 125 and the ISO is automatic. I roll my shutter speed up to 250, exposure remains the same. Need to nudge it up a touch (as you can predict because the EVF image is WYSIWYG), right thumb up to the right to roll the EC dial into the positive side - watching the small in view histogram in the bottom right.

 

Ergonomics designed by a six year old? Well, maybe designed for a younger mind is more appropriate.

 

Of course all this "bells and whistles" is "making my decisions for me" and removing the purity of the craft......

 

Couldn't be happier.

[algrove]

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That's about where I am too. Just buy one and find out for myself as even same lenses appear to produce different images on the a7r. I believe that is why everything is so confusing right now. It will not replace my M for street since I am thinking now that it will be mostly a landscape camera for me if that. Perhaps the a7 24MP would be the best one for street as I must say my RX-1 sure is terrific for street and even worked on the NYC metro system with all its movement in all directions except up.

 

Maybe the only guy I know is K-H that can make some sense out of this conundrum since he has M and R glass.

 

I also have some old Contax G glass, but images I have seen are not sharp and that makes me wonder if they were hand held.

[Thomas Chen]

To test the ease and precision of focusing, I target the letters on the CD of Brahms's String Quitette, 2 Meters awayt. The same scene of my first posting about A7R.

 

R lenses: 21-35/3.5-4, 28/2.8, and 35-70/4 (the latest version)

M lenses: 21/2.8 ASPH, 28/2 ASPH, 28/2.8 (pre ASPH), and 35/1.5 ASPH (pre FLE)

 

Using EVF at 7.2X with peaking and 14.4x (peaking does'nt come out !?) to focus the small letters is quite easy and pleasant.

 

Conclusion: at same FL and aperture setting, R lenses resolves the motif much clear and precise than M lenses.

 

it's no doubt that A7R and the R lenses are excellent matches. A very encouraging result and a hilarious experience.

 

Perhaps A7 is better for M lenses?

[marcg]

Is Sony the New Leica? | Leica BOSS

 

He has absolutely nailed it.

...the Leica brand ... exists to serve the “M”.

 

The MM is really the only innovative thing which Leica has done for a long while. Even the M8 and M8 were merely evolutionary.

Even the MM, being mainly an adaptation of existing parts, was an evolutionary glitch.

[Peter H]

Face and eye tracking AF is revolutionising my candid / environmental portraits. …………..

 

This is quite a fascinating development.

 

I found the AF tracking on my D700, the most recent non-FR digital camera I've relied on for serious amounts of work, to be laborious and often impractical, though undoubtedly accurate once it had attached to a subject, but quite often it was the wrong subject. In fact MF was very much easier, quicker and more precise in practice, so I switched to all Zeiss ZF lenses, mF of course, and found my success rate soared. And with Leica, I have much better success with a rangefinder than I did with any DSLR, but then again, the D700 was probably ancient technology compared with the A7R.

 

I really think I shall have to buy one to find out how good it really is.

[naturephoto1]

To test the ease and precision of focusing, I target the letters on the CD of Brahms's String Quitette, 2 Meters awayt. The same scene of my first posting about A7R.

 

R lenses: 21-35/3.5-4, 28/2.8, and 35-70/4 (the latest version)

M lenses: 21/2.8 ASPH, 28/2 ASPH, 28/2.8 (pre ASPH), and 35/1.5 ASPH (pre FLE)

 

Using EVF at 7.2X with peaking and 14.4x (peaking does'nt come out !?) to focus the small letters is quite easy and pleasant.

 

Conclusion: at same FL and aperture setting, R lenses resolves the motif much clear and precise than M lenses.

 

it's no doubt that A7R and the R lenses are excellent matches. A very encouraging result and a hilarious experience.

 

Perhaps A7 is better for M lenses?

 

Thomas,

 

Since you have the camera a bit longer, have you been pleased with the edge and corner performance of the R 28mm f2.8 Elmarit V2 on the A7r?

 

Thanks.

 

Rich

[Rick]

I know the simple answer to this is in the thread somewhere, but its a huge thread to trawl, so please forgive me for asking again:

 

What adapter would you most recommend for using M lenses with the A7R?

 

And for R lenses?

 

Thank you.

 

Peter, don't you find it a little disingenuous that Sony touted that the camera was designed to work with Leica M lenses and it doesn't work well with most any of them with the possibility of 50mm+? If, Leica had made a statement that they supported E -lenses and they didn't work, certain members here would be all over Leica. Rather selective, huh?

 

To answer your question, sony.

[mben]

Where I am so far, for anyone who might be in a similar predicament, or be interested in further navel-gazing on the subject:

 

Will it be possible soon to create a sort of consensus-based list on Leica lenses and how they work with the A7R?

 

If, for example, my three favourite lenses (28 f2 ASPH, 35 1.4 ASPH FLE & 501.4 ASPH) produce better results on the Sony than they do on the M, then obviously the A7R becomes immensely attractive as a body that will work alongside or even instead of my M.

 

If, on the other hand, I'd have to buy new lenses to cover my preferred focal-length range, I'd have to be convinced that the quality of an entirely new kit is sufficiently superior to my Leica outfit to consider making a wholesale change. And then I'd have to decide between Sony, Nikon etc., etc… What I absolutely do not want is to end up with two camera systems, and the improvement would have to be great enough to compensate for the loss of the Rangefinder. I've completely had it with multiple systems, and the Leica M is the best single system for my purposes I've had for many a long year. But times change and throw up interesting opportunities and developments.

 

Maybe the Sony is so far superior to the M that even it's no so hot with some lenses, those it can use make it all worthwhile. But I don't know whether that's the case, or whether the differences are too small to justify all the agonising.

 

I know: just buy one and find out for myself. It's only money, after all!

 

Thank you for your patience.

 

Peter,

 

I have the A7r since last Friday night (Nov 23), got a flu over a mostly rainy weekend, but had some time for a very preliminary test with some of my M lenses:

 

Elmarit 28mm f2.8 mkIV: no color shift; details smearing in the outer frame, visible at print size at any aperture - unusable for landscape. Today I've done a docu / street walk with Q7r & 28mm to see if smearing can be tolerated in the "environmental portraiture". On the M240 and M9 this lens is nothing short of awesome, best 28mm I've ever used.

 

Summarit 35mm f2.5: no color shift; details smearing in the outer frame, visible at print size but tolerable at f11 / f16. Again unusable for landscape, still have to test for docu / street. On the M240 and M9 the Summarit is great, just a hint of red fringing edges on M9 at 100% screen (all Summarits had red fringinf on my M9).

 

Summicron 50mm f2 mkV: no color shift; weak details smearing in the outer frame, gradually fading so that at f8 image is about perfect. Usable for street and landscape (f8+), crazy details rendition on A7r - better than on the M240 and beyond the 12 mpix resolution difference.

 

Summicron 90mm f2 pre-asph: no color shift, no details smearing. Severe purple fringing at the larger apertures - needs pp.

 

Elmar-C 90mm f4: this lens I keep just for fun, but is surprisingly "good" (within its inherent optical limitations at the wider apertures).

 

Elmar 135mm f4: no color shift, no details smearing.

 

More to test in the next days.

 

I do not go wider than 28mm with M's (and using the D800e for uwa), and I sold the Voigts 15mm and 21mm due to bad edge performance on the M240.

 

Also based on others' impressions, I think the A7r is difficult to use with anything M from 28mm and below, particularly if the exit pupil protrudes - but lenses should be checked on a case by case basis.

 

35mm looks like a hit or miss - my Summarit smears even if the exit pupil is well inside the lens barrel.

 

50mm is the "frontier".

 

Above 50mm, almost everything should work.

 

Based on the abovem and given that I do not have any A7r native Sony lenses, I was about to return the camera. In the end I decided to keep it as it is a joy to use and image quality is simply stunning (within 800 iso, IMO).

 

I am switching my attention to Zeiss / Contax and Canon FD lenses as to cover the 21mm - 35mm range I use for documentary and street.

 

Best,

 

M

[thighslapper]

 

Ergonomics designed by a six year old? Well, maybe designed for a younger mind is more appropriate.

 

Couldn't be happier.

 

Are you telling me you would have put the buttons on this camera where Sony has put them ??

 

With an eye on the viewfinder most of them are not anywhere near where my fingers naturally fall...... the front control wheel is superfluous and there should be a couple of buttons here instead.... C2 is a joke ...... and I am still trying to reassign focus magnifying to one I can hit consistently ..... the AEL one is just about ok. I am too old to learn to play the piano and all this finger gymnastics is just plain irritating

[IkarusJohn]

.I really think I shall have to buy one to find out how good it really is.

 

Hi Peter,

 

I'd be careful.

 

My initial perception is that in practice, all my Leica lenses work with the A7r, but they require varying degrees of pp. M9 files also require pp, but obviously less than the 7r files. The jury is still out for me, but my expectation is that across the board, my Leica cameras give better images with my Leica glass - but I can't confirm that yet. I probably won't take any more test shots, as I'm actually not that interested in pixel peeping.

 

Is the A7r useable? Absolutely!

 

I do recommend you give this a try for yourself - you can sell the camera if you don't like it. Get a Novoflex adapter, then forget about it. Novoflex supplies direct, and they're very nice.

 

But - remember why you like your M(240), and keep that in mind. While I didn't buy the M, I won't be ditching my M9 or Monochrom for the Sony. The Sony has very interesting electronics and a lovely sensor. I will buy one of the new Zeiss lenses next year (manual focus), but largely because the Sony adds to my Leica system, rather than replaces it.

 

Cheers

John

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[thighslapper]

 

50mm is the "frontier".

 

yes....... but having spent an afternoon with the 75/2 I would be careful with focus peaking at 2&2.8 ...... it is not accurate enough to consistently focus with this narrow DOF ..... you need focus magnification as well to be certain.

 

To be honest I've found RF focussing is quicker and more accurate on the M, even with the 75/2

[IkarusJohn]

I haven't been able to get the focus magnification to work yet - the lenses with shallowest depth of field are the AA 90/2 and 70/1.4 wide open. I had no problem nailing the focus wide open then stopping down.

 

With a tripod, I thought the detail and sharpness across the frame was superb in my test shots.

 

I don't tend to do landscapes with wides, though obviously situations vary - I try to avoid rules like that.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[dwbell]

Are you telling me you would have put the buttons on this camera where Sony has put them ??

 

With an eye on the viewfinder most of them are not anywhere near where my fingers naturally fall...... the front control wheel is superfluous and there should be a couple of buttons here instead.... C2 is a joke ...... and I am still trying to reassign focus magnifying to one I can hit consistently ..... the AEL one is just about ok. I am too old to learn to play the piano and all this finger gymnastics is just plain irritating

 

Which suggests we agree, on the younger minds thing, perhaps? Really not trying to be antagonistic and if it doesn't work for you then that's fine.

 

The front dial is my shutter speed. Not superfluous at all. With the camera to my eye I am accessing the centre button and all direction pad buttons with the pad I my thumb first junction. The top of my thumb is accessing aperture dial, focus peaking or Ae lock or manual focus override or EC comp. By 'gymnastics' I see one slight shift right with one digit (thumb) to access EC. But that's me. Like I said previously in this thread, I'm perfectly adept at learning and using this stuff. And it enables my craft, which in turn enables my art.

 

On my M240 I simply cannot, repeat can not operate the front button. By way of user experience contrast.

[3D-Kraft.com]

Link to the updated part of my article about functional RF UWA lenses on the A7R:

UPDATED: Ultra Wide Angle M-Mount Lenses THAT WORK On Sony A7R (Leica "WATE" Tri Elmar 16-18-21mm f/4 ASPH and Voigtlander Ultron 21mm f/1.8 ASPH)

 

Some samples from that article:

 

Leica WATE 21mm:

 

 

Leica WATE 16mm:

 

 

Leica WATE 16mm:

 

 

Voigtlander Ultron 21mm @ f/1.8:

 

 

(click on the images to see further sizes / resolutions)

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Peter H]

Peter, don't you find it a little disingenuous that Sony touted that the camera was designed to work with Leica M lenses and it doesn't work well with most any of them with the possibility of 50mm+? If, Leica had made a statement that they supported E -lenses and they didn't work, certain members here would be all over Leica. Rather selective, huh?

 

To answer your question, sony.

 

I wasn't aware they'd actually presented it on that basis. But if that was the case, then yes, it just goes to prove what we probably all know anyway, that they're all as bad as each other when it comes down to it, and anyone who buys things like cameras on the basis of the words used to promote them is probably going to end up being disappointed at some stage!

 

I also take your point that there's a reasonably heavy anti-Leica bias evident in this forum, sometimes for logical reason given the amounts of money people have spent to become Leica customers, sometimes out of an apparent wish not to be one of the "gullible herd" despite having spent that money. I try not to take it seriously.