CheshireCat Posted November 19, 2013 Share #2341 Posted November 19, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) It's the f/2, I was up at f/22 with Elinchrom packs, odd. Indeed ! Sensor birefringence ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 19, 2013 Posted November 19, 2013 Hi CheshireCat, Take a look here The Sony A7 thread [Merged]. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
dwbell Posted November 19, 2013 Share #2342 Posted November 19, 2013 Indeed ! Sensor birefringence ? You know what? I'm pretty sure on reflection it had something to do with my daughters huge pink princess castle. Teach me for not prepping the office appropriately! I thank the Photoshop God's for their continued grace and generosity! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guido Posted November 19, 2013 Share #2343 Posted November 19, 2013 Once we know the answer to those questions we can make a more informed decision. This will take at least 6 months, so considering Japanese product cycles we might as well just wait for the A8r which will feature improved microsites, 48MP, in-camera image stabilization and an aluminium unibody Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Jones Posted November 19, 2013 Share #2344 Posted November 19, 2013 A couple of points that I haven't seen discussed. The first is that I haven't seen real solid testing with just Leica glass so it is still hard to evaluate how they perform with either A7 or A7r. The second important point is that Leica does in camera correction for their lenses and I haven't seen anyone use the Sony app that will provide this ability to be tuned to the specific lens and to make corrections thus the comparisons are of an uncorrected image versus a corrected image. It is a no brainer to say that an uncorrected image will show vignetting and some color shift compared to a corrected one. Leica wouldn't have had to do the in camera processing if offset lenses on the sensor were enough to fix the close register problem. Sony allows one to do corrections for any lens whereas the Leica corrections are limited to Leica lenses. Once we know the answer to those questions we can make a more informed decision. The sony correction software is not available on the A7r. I tried to download it direct to the camera but it's just not an option, maybe that will change. What would you call solid testing and I will try to oblige, sadly I've been struggling to find anywhere to upload raw files but I have put some on Google drive. Just need to work out how to share them now! One thing that is well established. There is going to be smearing with wide angle lenses where the exit pupil is close to the sensor. All the results I'm seeing at 35 and above are stellar. Camera handling is of course different to the M but sometimes that's a good thing and other times not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 19, 2013 Share #2345 Posted November 19, 2013 Don't you have a dropbox to upload a couple of 35/2 asph pics (raw please)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Jones Posted November 19, 2013 Share #2346 Posted November 19, 2013 This will take at least 6 months, so considering Japanese product cycles we might as well just wait for the A8r which will feature improved microsites, 48MP, in-camera image stabilization and an aluminium unibody I'm not sure that it would help M users to have more resolution. Maybe Leica have had to opt for around 22mp when designing the M because the micro sites can not be designed to make a 36mp sensor work for M wide angles. Interesting that generally we all project ideals about the next versions, but if you are not manufacturing it you don't need to worry about the extra weight and size of IBIS. Sony have been going down the software and lens based stabilisation route from details I've seen. IBIS needs space in the body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Jones Posted November 19, 2013 Share #2347 Posted November 19, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Don't you have a dropbox to upload a couple of 35/2 asph pics (raw please)? I do have a dropbox, but have never shared it before. Let me look at the implications, I need to secure the information I already have on there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted November 19, 2013 Share #2348 Posted November 19, 2013 You have a folder called Public in DropBox. If you put a file in there, right click the file and select public link, you can copy and paste the link. It only works one file at a time, so security is not such an issue. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted November 19, 2013 Share #2349 Posted November 19, 2013 All the results I'm seeing at 35 and above are stellar. Camera handling is of course different to the M but sometimes that's a good thing and other times not. I downloaded full resolution files of ZM 50/2 on A7 and resized them to M9 size files. I find the performance good but the edges of the frame, let alone the corners, are much weaker than what I usually get with the M9 at similar apertures. That is why I am not very convinced that the Sony would be an option for top performance with RF lenses. If someone shoots up close a lot or doesn't shoot landscapes, then I guess there should be no problem. But if getting sharp borders and corners is important, then anything below 75 will be problematic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Jones Posted November 19, 2013 Share #2350 Posted November 19, 2013 I'm onto the Dropbox thing, just waiting for the files to upload which will take a while. I agree with Edward about the edges, I have to say I'm mainly interested in the subject of my photo with a 50mm, the edges are mostly blurred anyway! Looking at all the 50mm raws here with a mixture of Z50/1.5 and M50/2 I can see evidence of weak edges but not so much in the brick wall shots. It's worth reading Edwin Puts again about lens characteristics because if you've never noticed the resolution and contrast dropping off before, you might be at 36mp. Hopefully this should link to the 28mm photos I uploaded the other day. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4999128/DSC00110.ARW https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4999128/L1024185.DNG If anyone can mirror these it might prove useful down the road. I have some similar (back garden) 35mm ones I took this morning, I'm probably going to make a liar of myself having said how great the 35 asph was. Looking at the results the edges are a bit odd. I might not be able to do much more today as pressing business calls. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Jones Posted November 19, 2013 Share #2351 Posted November 19, 2013 It's with some reservation that I'm including these M35/2 asph comparison shots at f2. You will have to colour balance and resize to compare them properly but this is how they came out of the camera. The Sony file has been exported from Lightroom as a dng which might help some of you. Sorry it's not a very pretty view. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4999128/Garden%20Leica.dng https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4999128/Garden%20Sony.dng Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 19, 2013 Share #2352 Posted November 19, 2013 Much appreciated thanks. I can't seem to download your last Sony dng file though. When you have some time, would you mind to upload your ARW files as is? They are easy to convert with Adobe dng converter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Jones Posted November 19, 2013 Share #2353 Posted November 19, 2013 Uploaded the ARW, does it make any difference though? https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4999128/Garden%20Sony.arw Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted November 19, 2013 Share #2354 Posted November 19, 2013 A couple of points that I haven't seen discussed. The first is that I haven't seen real solid testing with just Leica glass so it is still hard to evaluate how they perform with either A7 or A7r. The second important point is that Leica does in camera correction for their lenses and I haven't seen anyone use the Sony app that will provide this ability to be tuned to the specific lens and to make corrections thus the comparisons are of an uncorrected image versus a corrected image. It is a no brainer to say that an uncorrected image will show vignetting and some color shift compared to a corrected one. Leica wouldn't have had to do the in camera processing if offset lenses on the sensor were enough to fix the close register problem. Sony allows one to do corrections for any lens whereas the Leica corrections are limited to Leica lenses. Once we know the answer to those questions we can make a more informed decision. I think what many M lens owners want to see is if some of the wide lenses can produce good detail in the corners comparable to what Leica bodies can achieve with those lenses. (No smearing.) If that's the case then it is worth investigating the various methods to compensate for vignetting and color shifting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guido Posted November 19, 2013 Share #2355 Posted November 19, 2013 An quick-and-dirty way to pixel-peep the images in Lightroom is to compare them with 3:1 zoom for the Leica and 2:1 zoom for the Sony, resulting in approximately the same on-screen display size. Looking at the image center, it's interesting how a bit of additional detail is visible in the Sony file, but there's really not much to it at all - not what you'd expect with 36MP. The image borders are light years apart, no contest. PS: Sharpness was set to +10 in the M9 image - my import preset or a leftover in the file? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted November 19, 2013 Share #2356 Posted November 19, 2013 I think what many M lens owners want to see is if some of the wide lenses can produce good detail in the corners comparable to what Leica bodies can achieve with those lenses. (No smearing.) If that's the case then it is worth investigating the various methods to compensate for vignetting and color shifting. I want to see the native Zeiss 35 FE on the A7R up against various Leica M 35s on the M240. But I'll do that when I get it in a few days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 19, 2013 Share #2357 Posted November 19, 2013 Uploaded the ARW, does it make any difference though?https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4999128/Garden%20Sony.arw Thank you much, i could not download your DNG file for whatever reason. Please find hereunder your "DSC00110.ARW" and "Garden Sony.ARW" files developed with C1v7 and adjusted in PS (WB and contrast only). Could you confirm which lenses you were using and at what aperture? Did you focus at infinity? Sorry to bother your with all those questions but i'm just trying to determine where the corners rendition is coming from. http://tllg.net/Sony28 (28 MB file) http://tllg.net/Sony35 (30 MB file) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Chen Posted November 19, 2013 Share #2358 Posted November 19, 2013 An quick-and-dirty way to pixel-peep the images in Lightroom is to compare them with 3:1 zoom for the Leica and 2:1 zoom for the Sony, resulting in approximately the same on-screen display size. or 300% for Sony and 200% for Leica to get the same size on-screen size? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted November 19, 2013 Share #2359 Posted November 19, 2013 The GetDPI Photography Forums - View Single Post - A7 and A7R Shipping from Amazon Japan, $300+ less than US retail, quote: " Ps. The Leica WATE seems to work really well. At 16,18 and 21 mm there is NO color smearing in the corners. Corners are sharp by f8. They are good at f5.6. A little soft at f4. Amazing result considering its a 36 meg sensor. Any cast or vigneting can be corrected by software. Hope capture one supports this camera soon for LCC. Pps. The Leica 24 mm f2.8. Asph. Also seems to works well. Corners are sharp by f8. They are usable at f5.6. Again a good result considering its a 36 meg sensor. I am too embarrassed to post the example shots as it's a picture of a building wall. " Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woorob Posted November 19, 2013 Share #2360 Posted November 19, 2013 Mr [Andy] Jones, Thank you very much for taking the time and effort to post high resolution images from both your M9 and A7R! I've been following this thread closely as I have a keen interest in a lighter and less expensive second body as a backup for my M(240). I placed a preorder for the A7R as soon as I was able to do so, and have also ordered the requisite adapters to allow my M and R lenses to be used on the A7R (the R to Sony E-mount adapter arrived yesterday). I've downloaded and compared as many high-resolution A7R files in .ARW format as I can find, and it was with some anticipation that I downloaded your .DNG and .ARW files using the Dropbox link you provided. Using Bridge, I opened both in Photoshop CC without any processing and compared them side by side on a large monitor. Unless I'm missing something, I must say I've not seen a single image from the A7R with Leica glass that truly impresses me. Most of the corners appear smeared and the overall resolution is not what I would have expected from a 36 megapixel sensor. I've opened the Sony RAW files directly in Photoshop CC as .ARW files using the latest camera raw plug-in (version 8.3). Perhaps the images will render better when suitable camera calibration profiles are available, and I will conduct some tests of my own when I receive the camera in about two weeks' time, but for now I must say I'm rather disappointed and wonder if I didn't make a mistake selling my M9-P (which maybe I should have kept as my backup). Time will tell, perhaps the Zeiss lenses will do a better job on this camera. Again, my sincere thanks for taking the time to post these helpful, high-resolution RAW files. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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