viramati Posted December 6, 2013 Share #3361 Posted December 6, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I know what you mean about classic cameras. They are very high pressure on the sales side and very dismissive if you don't spend. I have spent a lot of money there (they had something I wanted) they gave me a good deal and good service all round, markedly different attitude from before I spent some money! I got the impression that they will tell you anything to make a sale though. I bought a ZM 50 1.5 once and they wouldn't acknowledge the inherent focus shift although they did swap the first copy as it didn't calibrate with my body at 1.5. The ZM 50 1.5 is fantastic on the A7r if a 50mm is your kind of length by the way. I know Len can be quite a handful if you ask the wrong questions! My favourite for polite service and high quality second hand stock is Richard Caplan, the sales people there have always been very polite and patient including Richard. Red Dot is the wrong side of town for me, it's a good thing otherwise I would be there a lot more often. The thing is I have bought quite a bit from them in the past but the high pressure selling technique of giving a discount if you buy then of there is like dealing with double glazing salesman. I have bought regularly from RG lewis, Red Dot, Richard Caplan and LCE and none of them behave in this way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 6, 2013 Posted December 6, 2013 Hi viramati, Take a look here The Sony A7 thread [Merged]. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
hossegor Posted December 6, 2013 Share #3362 Posted December 6, 2013 today a slapped my old beat up summicron 50 on my a7r. the previous owner dropped it and it is dented on the filter screw mount. however, i think it performs extremely well on the a7r. tomorrow, i will try some old nikon glas. (24, 35 and 50 ai). Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/214267-the-sony-a7-thread-merged/?do=findComment&comment=2481770'>More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted December 6, 2013 Share #3363 Posted December 6, 2013 So, at this point, I can shoot second party lenses on the Sony A7R and that may work into my shooting style with time. But, right now it is a whole lot easier to shoot MF lenses on the M as apposed to the A7R, for me. The A7R just isn't really designed for a fast, loose manual-focus shooting style. Racking the peeking-sparkles back and forth in the EVF and then hitting the mag. button twice while trying to keep my finger off the shutter, then recomposing is just too "non-haptic" of an experience for me. I find it much easier to shoot MF lenses with 7R and EVF...I rarely need to use the zoom. For most shots the EVF has enough resolution to easily and quickly focus with out zooming. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
michali Posted December 6, 2013 Share #3364 Posted December 6, 2013 Thanks Mike. Which aperture did you use? K-H I used f8 on all of the images. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted December 7, 2013 Share #3365 Posted December 7, 2013 Just received mine today and after a LONG charge I headed out with a plethora of lenses. Started with the R 15/2.8 hand held and the corners look good on the LCD. Then used the R 75-210 for fun with the Metabones R-E adapter which has a QR plate built in. Used a RRS ball head on a 3500 series Gitzo, Used 7x and then14x mag at 210mm and found the 14x VERY helpful for precise focus. I found the size of the a7r and 75-210 very balanced for me. Miss the old cable release as electronic ones crazy and the 10 second timer OK, but not ideal. Got the FE 35 to experience the AF and I like it. The camera with this lens feels about ⅓ the weight of my M240 with 35 FLE. The shutter comments are over blown for me as I even took a candid shot 2 meters behind strangers and no one turned around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3D-Kraft.com Posted December 7, 2013 Share #3366 Posted December 7, 2013 Carl Zeiss / Contax Planar T* 85mm f/1.4 @ F1.4 on Sony A7R: (Click on image to see other sizes) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted December 7, 2013 Share #3367 Posted December 7, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) K-H I used f8 on all of the images. Many thanks Mike. I have tested my WATE on A7R for all focal lengths and aperture settings. Indeed it looks good! So far I have not detected any smearing, color cast, or significant vignetting! I posted some images here: The GetDPI Photography Forums - View Single Post - A7r - and why I'm keeping it ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenosch Posted December 7, 2013 Share #3368 Posted December 7, 2013 Over the last two weekends I got the chance to quickly do some test shots with the new Sony A7 and A7r cameras with a Leica Elmarit 28mm aspherical 11606 f2.8 lens (with a Novoflex adapter). The results are rather dissapointing to me. While sharper in the image center tt the image corners the 1800 Euro Leica lens at f2.8 performs much worse in terms of resolution on the A7/A7R than the A7 kit lens 28-70mm FE at f3.5. A comparison shot between the Sony A7 and Leica M9 revealed that the Elmarit performed better on the M9. Unfortunately, the resolution issues of the lens at the Sony A7/A7R can not easily be fixed in software such as other lens characteristic (radial distortion, chromatic abberations). I also made test shots with the Leica Summicron 50mm f2.0 and an Leica Summicron 90mm f2.0 and those lenses perform much better on the Sony A7/A7r (no images, yet). The full resolution images of the Leica Elmarit 28mm aspherical 11606 with the Sony A7 + A7r + Leica M9 can be found on my flickr set here: Leica Elmarit 28mm Aspherical f2.8 test with Sony A7 + A7R + Leica M9 - a set on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woorob Posted December 7, 2013 Share #3369 Posted December 7, 2013 SONY A7R – MINI REVIEW AND WHY I SOLD MINE As previously posted, I received my Sony A7R this past Wednesday but was only able to take a few shots from my back deck before it got dark. To make matters worse, we had just been hit with a major snowstorm, which seemed to have produced a very odd and transient outdoor color balance. The next morning dawned clear, bright and bitter cold (-10°F), perfect for some comparison test shots as I had the day off. Before setting up the tripods, I took a few shots around the house with my 50mm 0.95 Noctilux. Frankly, I’ve been disappointed almost every time I’ve try to use this lens, particularly in the low light conditions for which it is intended, due to my continuing and abject inability to focus the lens properly on my M. I’m sure it’s user error, but, as they say, “it is what it is,” and this very expensive lens has been, for me at least, a disappointment. Until I shot a few images using the Sony. The A7R’s focus magnification feature is extremely impressive and, combined with focus peaking, works like a charm. With my ISO settings set to a minimum of 100 and a maximum of 3200, I was consistently able to obtain perfect focus even in barely visible areas. In dim light, looking through the A7R’s EVF is like looking at the same scene but adequately lit. The combination of the Noctilux and this camera is simply brilliant and, for those who own a Noctilux, reason enough to buy the Sony, if only as a second body. I then proceeded to set the tripods on my deck to shoot some pictures of the prairie/woodland area right behind my house. With the cameras mounted side-by-side, each on a sturdy tripod, I sent to compare the A7R and my M using the following lenses, aperture priority mode at f/8: · Zeiss 35mm f/2.8 on the Sony versus Summilux 35mm f/1.4 ASPH (pre-FLE) on the M. · Summilux 35mm f/1.4 on both cameras (using an M to E adapter) · Collapsible Elmarit 50mm f/2.8 (recent model) on both cameras. · WATE 16-18-21 on both cameras · Macro-Elmarit-R 100mm APO on the Sony using an R to E adapter Here are my observations, each of which is purely non-scientific, anecdotal and subjective: 1. The 36 megapixel sensor on the Sony doesn’t make as much difference, in terms of image quality, as I had expected. I thought the 50% increase in pixel count would have resulted in consistently sharper images with the Sony, but that was not my experience. In general, the images are somewhat sharper towards the center of the frame with the Sony but sharper at the outer perimeter of the frame with the M. The M’s advantage in perimeter sharpness is not limited to the very edges, either. If one visualizes a sharpness gradient extending from the very center of the frame towards the edges, the A7R and the M would seem to cross at a point about 25% outward from the very center of the frame. Within the zone prescribed by that crossover point, the Sony is sharper and outside that crossover point, the M is sharper, to me at least. 2. The Zeiss 35mm lens is an excellent performer. It is not, however, in the same league as the Summilux. This lens exhibits considerable chromatic aberration when shooting a backlit object: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! To be fair, the Zeiss costs a mere fraction of the Summilux and should be perfectly acceptable for anything but the most demanding work. 3. The WATE works just fine on the Sony without any noticeable blurring or smearing the edges. It is not as sharp at the edges with the Sony as it is with the M, but I attribute this difference to the general characteristics of Sony’s sensor, and not to the performance of the WATE on the Sony. 4. The collapsible Elmarit 50mm f/2.8 is a real sleeper on this camera. It collapses into the body of the camera with no problem (try this at your own risk!) and produces great results. The world’s best pocketable camera? 5. The Sony exhibits a color shift when compared to the M, easily discernible when comparing two images using Lightroom. All of my outdoor images from the Sony exhibited a greenish color cast which was not present with the M. I imagine this is because Adobe has not yet prepared a proper color calibration for the .ARW files from this camera. Sound familiar? Here’s an example (I did not alter exposure in these shots; both are straight out of the camera when set to automatic exposure in aperture priority mode): 6. I believe I took the sharpest picture I have ever shot with a digital camera using my 100mm Macro-Elmarit-R APO on the Sony. I’ve taken scores of test photographs of a dead tree in the distance with a Leica M9-P, Nikon D700, Nikon D800 and Leica M, and the sharpest result I have ever obtained was with this Sony. 7. I prefer the A7R to the D800 and believe it produces an image at least as sharp. I sold my D800 because it was too clunky for me, especially with Nikon’s bulky “pro-level” zoom lenses, and, except for sports photographers and the like, this camera could well signal the death knell for large DSLR full frame cameras. 8. Menu navigation with the A7R is overly complex and, in my opinion, leaves a lot to be desired. I’ve had an RX-100 for over a year, and because I’m quite familiar with its operation I had expected no trouble with the A7R since its menu functions are similar to those of the RX-100. Wrong. For example, something as simple as determining how to make the electronic level visible in the viewfinder took me about 10 minutes to ascertain. And then when I wanted to remove it, took me another 10 minutes to figure out how to do that. I have a new and profound appreciation for the simplicity of the M; its brilliance lies in the elegance of its operation. For me, the complexity of the A7R is its biggest drawback. So why did I sell it? Yesterday my brother (also an avid photographer and Leica user) called and we reviewed my experiences with the Sony. He has an M on order and was very interested in my conclusions after using the Sony for a short while. Later that day, he sent me a note asking if I’d like to sell my Sony to him so that he could use it in some winter bicycle races he’s entered (he’s crazy – 135 miles in deep winter across northern Minnesota and 130 km in February in Winnipeg/aka Winterpeg???). (Photo shot last year in Manitoba by organizers of the Actif Epica race, in which the promoters claim one yeti participated. Maybe that was my brother. ) He thinks the smaller size of the Sony will enable him to carry the camera in a small bag attached to the frame of his bike where doing so with the M would be difficult or impossible. For me, the purchase was a bit on the extravagant side and even though I had resolved to keep the camera (primarily because of how superbly it works with my Noctilux), I decided to be fiscally prudent and sell him the camera. I shipped it to Colorado yesterday and he’ll receive it on Monday. Update: About an hour or two after I got back from the Post Office yesterday I contacted a local camera dealer to inquire about the possibility of trading my Nikon DX system for an A7R. Over the years, I’ve accumulated several lenses for the Nikon, and I generally like the D7100, but IMO there’s really no comparison between that camera and the A7R. If I were to replace my Nikon D7100 and its complement of lenses with another A7R, I would not only have a significant amount of interchangeability between my two systems, but also a second body as a backup. So I’m hoping to be able to make the trade. Here are links to some RAW files, straight out of each camera, no processing or alteration of any kind: Zeiss 35mm FE f/2.8 on Sony A7R: https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D243783_74498898_259224 Summilux 35mm on M: https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D243783_74498898_259203 WATE at 16mm on Sony: https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D243783_74498898_259230 WATE at 16mm on M: https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D243783_74498898_259215 50mm collapsible Elmar on Sony: https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D243783_74498898_259246 50mm collapsible Elmar on M: https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D243783_74498898_259225 100mm Macro-Elmarit-R APO on Sony: https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D243783_74498898_259249 Hope someone finds this helpful! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! To be fair, the Zeiss costs a mere fraction of the Summilux and should be perfectly acceptable for anything but the most demanding work. 3. The WATE works just fine on the Sony without any noticeable blurring or smearing the edges. It is not as sharp at the edges with the Sony as it is with the M, but I attribute this difference to the general characteristics of Sony’s sensor, and not to the performance of the WATE on the Sony. 4. The collapsible Elmarit 50mm f/2.8 is a real sleeper on this camera. It collapses into the body of the camera with no problem (try this at your own risk!) and produces great results. The world’s best pocketable camera? 5. The Sony exhibits a color shift when compared to the M, easily discernible when comparing two images using Lightroom. All of my outdoor images from the Sony exhibited a greenish color cast which was not present with the M. I imagine this is because Adobe has not yet prepared a proper color calibration for the .ARW files from this camera. Sound familiar? Here’s an example (I did not alter exposure in these shots; both are straight out of the camera when set to automatic exposure in aperture priority mode): 6. I believe I took the sharpest picture I have ever shot with a digital camera using my 100mm Macro-Elmarit-R APO on the Sony. I’ve taken scores of test photographs of a dead tree in the distance with a Leica M9-P, Nikon D700, Nikon D800 and Leica M, and the sharpest result I have ever obtained was with this Sony. 7. I prefer the A7R to the D800 and believe it produces an image at least as sharp. I sold my D800 because it was too clunky for me, especially with Nikon’s bulky “pro-level” zoom lenses, and, except for sports photographers and the like, this camera could well signal the death knell for large DSLR full frame cameras. 8. Menu navigation with the A7R is overly complex and, in my opinion, leaves a lot to be desired. I’ve had an RX-100 for over a year, and because I’m quite familiar with its operation I had expected no trouble with the A7R since its menu functions are similar to those of the RX-100. Wrong. For example, something as simple as determining how to make the electronic level visible in the viewfinder took me about 10 minutes to ascertain. And then when I wanted to remove it, took me another 10 minutes to figure out how to do that. I have a new and profound appreciation for the simplicity of the M; its brilliance lies in the elegance of its operation. For me, the complexity of the A7R is its biggest drawback. So why did I sell it? Yesterday my brother (also an avid photographer and Leica user) called and we reviewed my experiences with the Sony. He has an M on order and was very interested in my conclusions after using the Sony for a short while. Later that day, he sent me a note asking if I’d like to sell my Sony to him so that he could use it in some winter bicycle races he’s entered (he’s crazy – 135 miles in deep winter across northern Minnesota and 130 km in February in Winnipeg/aka Winterpeg???). (Photo shot last year in Manitoba by organizers of the Actif Epica race, in which the promoters claim one yeti participated. Maybe that was my brother. ) He thinks the smaller size of the Sony will enable him to carry the camera in a small bag attached to the frame of his bike where doing so with the M would be difficult or impossible. For me, the purchase was a bit on the extravagant side and even though I had resolved to keep the camera (primarily because of how superbly it works with my Noctilux), I decided to be fiscally prudent and sell him the camera. I shipped it to Colorado yesterday and he’ll receive it on Monday. Update: About an hour or two after I got back from the Post Office yesterday I contacted a local camera dealer to inquire about the possibility of trading my Nikon DX system for an A7R. Over the years, I’ve accumulated several lenses for the Nikon, and I generally like the D7100, but IMO there’s really no comparison between that camera and the A7R. If I were to replace my Nikon D7100 and its complement of lenses with another A7R, I would not only have a significant amount of interchangeability between my two systems, but also a second body as a backup. So I’m hoping to be able to make the trade. Here are links to some RAW files, straight out of each camera, no processing or alteration of any kind: Zeiss 35mm FE f/2.8 on Sony A7R: https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D243783_74498898_259224 Summilux 35mm on M: https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D243783_74498898_259203 WATE at 16mm on Sony: https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D243783_74498898_259230 WATE at 16mm on M: https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D243783_74498898_259215 50mm collapsible Elmar on Sony: https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D243783_74498898_259246 50mm collapsible Elmar on M: https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D243783_74498898_259225 100mm Macro-Elmarit-R APO on Sony: https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D243783_74498898_259249 Hope someone finds this helpful! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/214267-the-sony-a7-thread-merged/?do=findComment&comment=2482308'>More sharing options...
jankap Posted December 7, 2013 Share #3370 Posted December 7, 2013 Thank you for the nice to read review. You don't need a back-up. Or do you plan to travel into the Antarctic? Sony has a different mode of production. They will have one available, if you need one. The A7® seems to be a nice camera, despite the user interface. Asian people think differently. I outsourced the Dlux-4 because of this. But perhaps I get weak for the A7® too. Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted December 7, 2013 Share #3371 Posted December 7, 2013 Well, it's a matter of making an effort to become familiar with those mirror-less cameras. Having done that IMHO the UI of the E-M1 is stellar indeed! The UI of the A7R doesn't seem to be quite as polished but certainly is workable. I am sure, once I have spent more time with the A7R, it will grow on me. It's certainly a terrific camera with stunning performance. My wish is a camera that combines the best features of E-M1 and A7R. It seems Sony and Olympus are collaborating towards that goal already. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted December 7, 2013 Share #3372 Posted December 7, 2013 The Wate samples have a different angle of view. Both are excellent. I had to use Rawdigger. Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted December 8, 2013 Share #3373 Posted December 8, 2013 It beats ice fishing. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/214267-the-sony-a7-thread-merged/?do=findComment&comment=2482461'>More sharing options...
3D-Kraft.com Posted December 8, 2013 Share #3374 Posted December 8, 2013 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 85mm f/1.8 G (2012 model) at F1.8 on Sony A7R: (please click on image to see other sizes) 1:1 crop (actual pixels): It was also on my D800E already one of the sharpest lenses and I will keep it for the A7R as long as Sony/Zeiss do not provide something better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted December 8, 2013 Share #3375 Posted December 8, 2013 What is the general consensus? I have read on a number of occasions that people prefer their M9 over their a7r Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted December 8, 2013 Share #3376 Posted December 8, 2013 What is the general consensus? I have read on a number of occasions that people prefer their M9 over their a7r Hi Paul, Please, let me guess where you might have read that? Hmm, where could that have been? Na, couldn't be, could it? Sony A7R + Noct Nikkor 58/1.2 @ f/1.2, ISO 2500, 1/200 s The GetDPI Photography Forums - View Single Post - A7r - and why I'm keeping it ... Just trying to demonstrate technical capabilities. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted December 8, 2013 Share #3377 Posted December 8, 2013 Karl, Interesting thread and camera ! You have pictures comparing the A7R and M here (but in French) with different lenses in free access. summilux.net • Afficher le sujet - Sony Nex FF α7 & α7R summilux.net • Afficher le sujet - Sony Nex FF α7 & α7R summilux.net • Afficher le sujet - Sony Nex FF α7 & α7R another here: SONY A7R with Legacy LENS Zap Design | Flickr - Photo Sharing! I hope this will help you If you want in English, make "google translation" Best Henry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted December 8, 2013 Share #3378 Posted December 8, 2013 I have read it on here, in this thread, and on a couple other places, flickr etc from people who have bought and been using it too. I've found some samples to be hit and miss, it's hard to tell wether it's lens or not. Also some colour which seems to be quite false looking. But I don't know if it's user error or camera "feature". It makes sense, if the colour needs work that people fiddle with it and don't get it quite right. I guess you are happy Karl-Heinz? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted December 8, 2013 Share #3379 Posted December 8, 2013 I have read it on here, in this thread, and on a couple other places, flickr etc from people who have bought and been using it too. I've found some samples to be hit and miss, it's hard to tell wether it's lens or not. Also some colour which seems to be quite false looking. But I don't know if it's user error or camera "feature". It makes sense, if the colour needs work that people fiddle with it and don't get it quite right. I guess you are happy Karl-Heinz? Thanks Paul. I would sum up my interest as trying to learn as much as possible, see what works and what doesn't, and not restrict myself to M lenses. There are hundreds and hundreds of web pages out there that have documented a few successes and many failures. I should have no problem finding a handful of lenses should work for me on the A7R. I am enjoying the journey as much as the destination. What about you? Are you happy? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Chen Posted December 8, 2013 Share #3380 Posted December 8, 2013 Thanks Thomas,I'll look forward to seeing them, there are some landscape shots with interesting stuff perpendicular to the lens axis earlier in this l-o-n-g thread, fine and sharp in the middle but distinctly fuzzy at the edge, corners are always harder to judge as DoF comes into play Gerry Gerry, I changed the scene as that may better fit your purpose. Please see a set of images of various adjustment and no adjustment, at the link: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/x46j450atocels4/qdaKVcjWOn The focus zone is at the highest builde, almost close to focusing at the infinity. f5.6 on a Gitzo tripod as recommended by Erwin Puts in his book "The soul of Lecia M lenses". By my observation the 35Corn ASPH can well meet your demand, however, the final judgement is up to you. Regards, Thomas Chen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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