Photoskeptic Posted October 16, 2013 Share #641 Posted October 16, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I've had my one Sony - an NEX-7. While I managed to conquer its convoluted menu system, the EVF was still a hit-or-miss proposition. When I managed to achieve focus the results were sharp, but almost every shot had to be checked with the LCD to see, if indeed, the taken image was in focus. Frankly, I don't much care what Sony does now or in the future, I'll stick with something I KNOW will give the results I seek in photography - the Leica M system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 16, 2013 Posted October 16, 2013 Hi Photoskeptic, Take a look here The Sony A7 thread [Merged]. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
StephenPatterson Posted October 16, 2013 Share #642 Posted October 16, 2013 I think that Leica can start reducing the capacities of their X-Vario construction line... John I must say that the RX10 announcement, with a 24-200 f/2.8 constant aperture zoom lens was pretty amazing stuff. I had a play with the X Vario, and while I was impressed with the build quality that 28-70 f/3.5-6.4 zoom is just too darn slow... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted October 16, 2013 Share #643 Posted October 16, 2013 I agree with Borge that this thread should be merged with the other one on these new Sony cameras but, while the discussion is progressing here, I'll make a comment. One thing is that, if these A7 cameras work well with M-lemses and lot of Leica lens sales should be generated. On Leica digital bodies, there are the obvious issues of optical rangefinder vs EVF with focus peaking (which I don't like). However, the thing that I would have thought that would be in Leica's favor would be the color rendition, which in my view is unique to the M9. In another thread I quoted Charles Peterson's statement, "I do think that the higher iso's on the M9 are vastly underrated, and in general much prefer the image quality of the M9 to the M240. The M9 (and Monochrom by de facto) imo are truly two of the most unique digital cameras out there when it comes to the quality of the image. Not the "best" on paper but they have a look,an "umami" as the Japanese might say, that no other 35mm digital camera, comes close to." Please don't accuse me of opening up another avenue for discussing the M9 vs M240 color rendition, but what I want to say here is that in the (overly) long thread on A7/A7R speculation no one was concerned about color rendition and, so far, in my view, again, that of the Sony cameras has not been to my taste as much in the way the M9 is. Because the bulk of Leica users don't see the color rendition as an issue, then, it would seem to me, as long as these Sony cameras work well with wide-angle Leica lenses, they are likely to put pressure on Leica. —Mitch/Paris Tristes Tropiques [WIP] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted October 16, 2013 Share #644 Posted October 16, 2013 Color is extremely subjective in general and very malleable in digital photography. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted October 16, 2013 Share #645 Posted October 16, 2013 I think that Leica can start reducing the capacities of their X-Vario construction line... John And maybe note that THIS, from Sony, is what I got excited about when they toted "Mini M" all over the place. Coulda woulda shoulda... ...didn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted October 16, 2013 Share #646 Posted October 16, 2013 I must say that the RX10 announcement, with a 24-200 f/2.8 constant aperture zoom lens was pretty amazing stuff. I had a play with the X Vario, and while I was impressed with the build quality that 28-70 f/3.5-6.4 zoom is just too darn slow... With what Sony has done in the past year or so, consider how they are now leading technologically and design wise in quite a few segments. GoPro still has them beat in action cams for now although the IS is a nice feature in Sony's action cam. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted October 16, 2013 Share #647 Posted October 16, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Regarding the red edge effect with wides on A7R; here is one example (see the Zeiss 18mm F4 M-Mount image near the end of the page), showing some mis-colouring towards the left edge. It is, of course, hard to know the degree of post-processing the photo has gone through. A preliminary conclusion could be that the red edge is there, that it's not that bad and that it's likely curable with some post-processing. Off-center image sharpness with wides is another issue that would be interesting to see (and will come with reviews, for sure). In the same post the eye crop from the autofocus 55 zeiss has me wondering about my 50 lux... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted October 16, 2013 Share #648 Posted October 16, 2013 I have the same feelings for the X Vario although, if we bear in mind it has a zoom lens, the camera overall is slightly smaller than the Sony A7 will be with an equivalent zoom. With Leica primes, however, the A7 will be considerably smaller than the X Vario and, as you say, has a built-in (and much better) EVF. Hotshoe-mounted EVFs are a pain. The RX10 is another camera to compare to the X Vario. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macjonny1 Posted October 16, 2013 Share #649 Posted October 16, 2013 I would go for the Zeiss 24-70 zoom along with a couple of Leica primes. In my case' date=' I'm particularly interested in using my 50 LUX ASPH. This comment from Steve Huff has really piqued my interest: "I also have a sneaking suspicion that this camera will deliver better results than the Leica M with certain Leica lenses. The 50 Lux was magical on it as when I focused (which was a piece of cake due to the large EVF) it was just as quick as when I use the RF of the Leica, but when the image played back the result was massive 3D depth. Almost like a mix of the M8 and M9 together. Crispy yet smooth."[/quote'] I preordered one to try it out and I have an M240 but sometimes AF is nice to have and even higher ISO. However, most of Huff's writing is hype. "Massive 3D depth" LOL. Nevertheless I clicked his link to give him credit as I like his enthusiasm but don't take it literally or you will want every camera reviewed by him! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltraumpräsident Posted October 16, 2013 Share #650 Posted October 16, 2013 Die A7r wäre ein Gehäuse, an dem sich die Leica R- und M-Linsen wie an der M240 verwenden lassen. Den Messsucher benutz ich sowieso nicht. Und die A7r hätte den zusätzlichen Vorteil, Zeiss-Linsen mit Autofocus verwenden zu können. Mal seh'n was der Sensor leistet . Falls er dem der M(240) vergleichbar ist, dann wäre die A7r eine gute Ergänzung. Bin schon sehr, sehr neugierig. Gruß Gertrud nunja exif Daten was die Brennweite und Blende angeht wird es nicht geben Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-Photo Posted October 16, 2013 Share #651 Posted October 16, 2013 Wenn Sony es hinbekommt, über Kamera-Profile fremd-WWs vernünftig zu adaptieren, wäre das genial (und auch clever)!Bei den NEXen hat das aber nicht so optimal funktioniert, oder? Warum sollte Sony das tun ? Bei den unzählbaren Adaptionsmöglichkeiten würde sie so oder so nicht jeden glücklich machen und ganz ehrlich, sich mal eben für die eigenen UWW/WW ein Profil am Rechner zu erstellen ist jetzt nicht so der Aufwand, besonders da man das jeweilige reine Objektivprofil ja nur einmal erstellen muss. Und ggf. hat man Glück und kann eins der bereits in LR, etc. vorhandenen Profile erfolgreich nutzen. Gruß Jochen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-Photo Posted October 16, 2013 Share #652 Posted October 16, 2013 Ich warte erst mal ab,Denn ich bin kein Befürworter der Marktpolitik von Sony und überlege lieber einmal mehr ein Produkt des Herstellers zu kaufen.... Was stört dich denn so bei der Marktpolitik von Sony im Kamerabereich? Da steht Sony drauf und ist Sony drin, während die Sony-Sensoren auch bei Nikon, in der X und anderen Herstellern Verwendung finden. Gut, man hat halt immer noch das Gefühl, dass sobald der Name Sony fällt, man redet von einem Walkman. Gruß Jochen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedi996sps Posted October 16, 2013 Share #653 Posted October 16, 2013 The luminous landscape review is also very complimentary of the A7/A7r Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MikeN Posted October 16, 2013 Share #654 Posted October 16, 2013 Nettes Teil was Sony da gemacht hat. Für mich steht und fällt alles mit den WW-Fähigkeiten. Wenn sie hier genauso miserabel wie Leica performen (wenn man den Nachbar-Thread liest bekommt man ja regelrecht Angst), dann ist es eher keine Option. Schon komisch, dass die vielen Tester heute nichts dazu gesagt haben. Man hätte ja gleich mal ein paar WWs probieren können... Generell dennoch gut; treibt den Markt in die richtige Richtung Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedi996sps Posted October 16, 2013 Share #655 Posted October 16, 2013 Does anyone know what the likely particulars are when using a leica lense with the necessary adaptor ie will the camera know what aperture has been set on the lense and also what lense is being used? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp995 Posted October 16, 2013 Share #656 Posted October 16, 2013 ...Schon komisch, dass die vielen Tester heute nichts dazu gesagt haben. Man hätte ja gleich mal ein paar WWs probieren können... Die durften wohl noch nicht so richtig Ich bin aber auch wirklich gespannt, hoffe aber, daß Sony ernst macht. Die RF Argumente kann ich zwar verstehen, aber irgendwann ist auch die beste und erfolgreichste Technik mal überholt, wenn der Hersteller es nicht gescheit weiterentwickelt ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted October 16, 2013 Share #657 Posted October 16, 2013 While we're quoting people; On "sturdiness" Despite it’s small size and light weight, the a7R feels solid as the aluminum block that it’s carved from. On colour; The A7R feature the most lifelike colors I’ve ever seen from a digital camera. Thanks to the lack of AA filter, the images are incredibly sharp and the files look really clean. The dynamic range is really incredible holding detail from highlights to the deepest shadows. From Pulitzer Prize winning Brian Smith. Field Test: Sony A7R l Brian Smith Pictures Do I need point out that he shot with the camera extensively in Haiti? As opposed to, ya know, not even having ever held the camera. Just sayin'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrancoC Posted October 16, 2013 Share #658 Posted October 16, 2013 Was stört dich denn so bei der Marktpolitik von Sony im Kamerabereich? Da steht Sony drauf und ist Sony drin, während die Sony-Sensoren auch bei Nikon, in der X und anderen Herstellern Verwendung finden. Gut, man hat halt immer noch das Gefühl, dass sobald der Name Sony fällt, man redet von einem Walkman. Gruß Jochen Ja, ich verallgemeinere hier Sony im allgemeinen, doch gerne füge ich ein paar Beispiele an. Mein DVD Player spielt DVD´s in toller Tonqualität, doch CD Audio klingt wie ein Radiowecker unter einem Blecheimer, gebrannte Datenträger liest er aus Prinzip nicht. Nicht jede gebrannte DVD ist eine Raubkopie! Ein zu Hause vergessenes Netzteil für mein Laptop sorge auf einer Dienstreise für eine stundenlange Suche nach einem Ersatznetzteil. Der Anschluss am Laptop ist derart unpassend zu allen erdenklichen Anschlüssen die man so kaufen kann, erst ein Elektrofachmarkt der sich auf diesem Gebiet auskannte schaffte es nach einiger Sucherei aus dem Lager was hervorzuholen. Das ganze hat mich mehr als 3 Stunden gekostet. Alle sagten nur: Ein Netzteil für Sony Laptops? Das muss bestellt werden... Von Betamax, Walkman, und dem Minolta/Sony Blitzschuh und der Speicherkarten für Sony Kameras fange ich gar nicht an. Die "5 min nach Ende der Gewährleistungspflicht defekt" Gerüchte, na ja ... Was mich stört ist das Gefühl das Sony immer versucht seinen Standard durchzusetzen um Kunden damit an sich zu binden. Die NEX hat mich überhaupt nicht überzeugt, die wenigen die ich in der Hand hatte fühlten sich billig an. Ich lehne die A7 nicht ab, im Gegenteil. Nur bin ich vorsichtig geworden das ich mich nicht an etwas binde das nur mit Sony Zubehör funktioniert und möglicherweise nach wenigen Jahren nicht mehr auf dem Markt ist. Ich bin gespannt auf die ersten ernst zunehmenden Berichte in Bezug auf die Verwendbarkeit von M Weitwinkeln. Grüße, Thorsten Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglasf13 Posted October 16, 2013 Share #659 Posted October 16, 2013 Does anyone know what the likely particulars are when using a leica lense with the necessary adaptor ie will the camera know what aperture has been set on the lense and also what lense is being used? The camera can't do it natively, but there is a new adapter out there that reads the lens coding and adds it to EXIF. I believe that the maker is working on compliance for full frame: https://www.phigmenttech.ca/lmnex/index.php?page=product That being said, I'd prefer to give up the lens coding and use a Hawk's helicoid adapter, which allows the M lenses to have a much shorter minimum focusing distance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
previlo Posted October 16, 2013 Share #660 Posted October 16, 2013 That is probably why Leica opened their own stores, so that buyers won't be confused by dealers showing the competition. My bet is that Leica considered making a camera like this a few years ago (M with built in EVF) but did not have access to the technology or the resources to develop it. Year, and instead of using the resources at the right time to re-evaluate and finish that, they instead choose to spend their very limited resources on the X Vario...IMHO one of the biggest mistakes they did! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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