waiting for the R to M adapter

[farnz]

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... I still don’t know why folks are not buying the much cheaper but just as good Zeiss Contax equivalents. ...

Wilson,

 

With the greatest respect the Zeiss Contax equivalents are very good but I wouldn't class them as "just as good". I have the 28-90 Vario-Elmarit aspherical and had the 28-85 Vario-Sonnar and imho the Elmarit has significantly better image quality. Similarly I have both the 80-200 Vario-Elmar and Vario-Sonnar and the Elmar is slightly ahead in IQ. Were cost, size, weight, and optical 'fingerprint' to be factored in then they are closer since I prefer the Sonnar rendering to the Double Gauss. It also helps to be a fan of a trombone zoom with the Vario-Sonnars.

 

Pete.

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[thighslapper]

 

Of course the 80mm Summilux-R will continue to rocket skyward in value, especially for mint boxed ROM versions......;-))

 

Blame Overgaard for that ....... although at the end of his waxing lyrical he does point out using these lenses is an amusing whim rather than sensible ...... and that the M equivalents are better...... clearly no-one read that far before they scrambled to buy them......

 

I can understand using R zooms, macros and 135mm+, but duplicating what is already available in M mount is just plain daft .....

[AlanJW]

I can understand using R zooms, macros and 135mm+, but duplicating what is already available in M mount is just plain daft .....

 

Indeed. The emperor has no clothes. (I do like the 35-70 f/4 macro, but under your formulation I am not daft -- at least for that reason).

[algrove]

Indeed. The emperor has no clothes. (I do like the 35-70 f/4 macro, but under your formulation I am not daft -- at least for that reason).

 

And likewise I also like the 21-35 R in addition to your 35-70.

[marknorton]

The Leica R-M adapters I have seen pictures of show "Made in Portugal" on the base so one can assume it is made in the Leica factory.

 

Yes, the adapter itself just says "Leica R-Adapter M" but the foot hedges its bets by saying "Leica Camera Germany" and "Made in Portugal".

 

There's no denying the quality of the finish which makes the Novoflex adapters I have (Nikon to M, M42 to M) look rather utilitarian by comparison but they are rather less expensive.

[ModernMan]

Or maybe they shouldn't. Perhaps Leica prefer to have the adaptor, like many of their accessories, manufactured locally.

 

Ok, but the local CNC machines work just as fast as the ones in China (in fact the German brand Deckel is something of a global gold standard for CNC mills). Hmmm....so where's the delay?

[ModernMan]

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Wilson,

 

With the greatest respect the Zeiss Contax equivalents are very good but I wouldn't class them as "just as good". I have the 28-90 Vario-Elmarit aspherical and had the 28-85 Vario-Sonnar and imho the Elmarit has significantly better image quality. Similarly I have both the 80-200 Vario-Elmar and Vario-Sonnar and the Elmar is slightly ahead in IQ. Were cost, size, weight, and optical 'fingerprint' to be factored in then they are closer since I prefer the Sonnar rendering to the Double Gauss. It also helps to be a fan of a trombone zoom with the Vario-Sonnars.

 

Pete.

 

Particularly interesting as the Vario-Elmar is a Leica branded "vario kyocera". Neverhteless it is a gem of a lens.

[marknorton]

I count 26 parts in total, 14 of which are screws. The manual says the adapter barrel and tripod foot are die-cast aluminium, presumably then machined for finishing. All beautifully done, but you do wonder where the bottleneck has been. Perhaps it's the cardboard boxes they've been waiting for...

 

As expected, the adapter sets the 28/90 frame line selector and also presets the rangefinder roller to a focussing distance of 2m, including of course the parallax adjustment. When used with the 28-90 zoom, there's the added bonus (ok, not huge and hardly game-changing) of the two visible framelines approximating to the field of view at the extremes of the zoom range.

 

Thinking about being able to extend the capabilities of the M using R lenses got me thinking again about what lenses we might see from Leica in the future. It would be surprising if they let these new uses be met only by their own and other manufacturers' legacy glass (I know I can use current Nikon, of example, but without an aperture ring, it's a hassle) so we might see some new-use lenses designed for the M which provide some compatibility for traditional M cameras.

 

As regards prices, R lenses may have gone up in price but the fixed focal length lenses are less than their M counterparts and represent good value. Trouble is, like Monet paintings, there are only so many out there and the decent ones are becoming more difficult to find.

 

I paid a bit over £3000 for my 28-90. Sounds a lot until you realise it's rather less than the 35mm FLE Summilux ASPH; can you imagine how much a hypothetical 28-90 Vario Elmarit M ASPH would cost? But wouldn't it be good? I think any zoom introduced for the M would have to be heavily telecentric to avoid having to know the focal length selected to implement vignetting correction, just like the WATE.

[marknorton]

Oh, one other thought.

 

Playing with the Macro Adapter R and an ancient OUTRO made me think that, surely, Leica should be introducing an updated version of the OUTRO for macro work using existing M lenses.

 

We do of course have the slightly clunky macro-adapter but that works only with the 90mm macro-Elmar, I think a revised OUTRO would offer an interesting alternative when used with the M.

 

Photokina is but 9 months away, and it will soon be time to start speculating...

[wlaidlaw]

Wilson,

 

With the greatest respect the Zeiss Contax equivalents are very good but I wouldn't class them as "just as good". I have the 28-90 Vario-Elmarit aspherical and had the 28-85 Vario-Sonnar and imho the Elmarit has significantly better image quality. Similarly I have both the 80-200 Vario-Elmar and Vario-Sonnar and the Elmar is slightly ahead in IQ. Were cost, size, weight, and optical 'fingerprint' to be factored in then they are closer since I prefer the Sonnar rendering to the Double Gauss. It also helps to be a fan of a trombone zoom with the Vario-Sonnars.

 

Pete.

 

Pete,

 

Maybe sample variation comes into it. If you look at the MTF figures for the 28-90 and 28-85, they are very similar with the Leica slightly better than the Zeiss at one length and the opposite at another focal length. The Leica might have fractionally better micro contrast but the only area I would say it is a definite winner, is resistance to flare and veiling glare, the weak point of the Vario Sonnar (maybe with 16 elements, just too many air surfaces).

 

The 80-200 Vario Sonnar is one of the weakest lenses and oldest designs in the range and the 80-200/f4 Leica one of the best. I would say that the 100-300 Vario Sonnar, a far more modern design, compares favourably with the 80-200 Leica and even with the 70-180 APO, at a fraction of the cost. I am contemplating selling my 80-200 Leica and getting the 100-300 Contax, so I only have to carry one adapter around.

 

Wilson

[masjah]

Particularly interesting as the Vario-Elmar is a Leica branded "vario kyocera". Neverhteless it is a gem of a lens.

 

If we are talking about the 28-90, this is not the case; it's Leica designed and built.

[ModernMan]

If we are talking about the 28-90, this is not the case; it's Leica designed and built.

 

Of course you are correct, the 28-90 Vario-elmarit is a superb Leica lens. My comment was in reference to the Leica Vario-elmar 80-200/4, which is a remarkable lens, however by all accounts Kyocera-made.

[wlaidlaw]

When I got the Leica (Kyocera) 80-200, I thought that for longer focal lengths, I would prefer the “two touch” double ring focus and zoom arrangement. However having been using it quite a bit along with various Contax zooms, which are nearly all “one touch” combined trombone zoom/focus, I think that the one touch is better for nearly every circumstance. It is another factor encouraging me to replace the 80-200 Leica with the 100-300 Contax.

 

Also if the Leica lenses are in perfect parafocal adjustment, you can just about live with two touch, but as wear takes place and you have to do a fine focus after zooming, this becomes irritating. It is much less irritating with one touch, as you don’t have to move your hand to fine focus after zooming. The Leica lenses have to be disassembled to adjust this, whereas on Zeiss lenses, it is adjusted by means of two or three screws under the rubber sleeve on the zoom/focus ring. It is still an expert job to do but in consequence of no disassembly required, considerably cheaper.

 

Wilson

[Theodor Heinrichsohn]

Oh, one other thought.

 

Playing with the Macro Adapter R and an ancient OUTRO made me think that, surely, Leica should be introducing an updated version of the OUTRO for macro work using existing M lenses.

 

We do of course have the slightly clunky macro-adapter but that works only with the 90mm macro-Elmar, I think a revised OUTRO would offer an interesting alternative when used with the M.

 

Photokina is but 9 months away, and it will soon be time to start speculating...

 

I very definitely agree. I have the "ancient" OUTRO and find it most convenient to use.

It has become ridiculously expensive second hand and a modern version would surely sell very well.

 

Teddy

[masjah]

At a guess, the use of milled dots is to bypass Leica design registration or patents or whatever.

[marknorton]

It's a pity that Leica don't own up to their failure to get this product to market in a reasonable time and allow Novoflex to mill the 6 bit code.

 

I've just tried the 80mm again with the Leica adapter and focus peaking certainly works; you do of course need some contrast in what you are focussing on for the peaking to work.

[wlaidlaw]

It's a pity that Leica don't own up to their failure to get this product to market in a reasonable time and allow Novoflex to mill the 6 bit code.

 

I've just tried the 80mm again with the Leica adapter and focus peaking certainly works; you do of course need some contrast in what you are focussing on for the peaking to work.

 

My understanding was that as long as you did not paint in a 6 bit code (leaving that to the owner), there was no patent infringement problem in milling recesses the correct shape. I have not heard of any evidence of Leica leaning on the numerous providers of adapters and mount milling services. I have five lenses on their way back to me from Malcolm Taylor having had coding recesses milled in the mounts.

 

Making the wrong shaped recesses sounds like the worst of all worlds. Novoflex might have been better sticking to their previous system of a oblong slot with a white plastic cover on the bottom of the slot, on which you hand code either with a Sharpie or black paint. At least with a bit of experimentation, you can always get a code to work.

 

I have just asked Novoflex if their tripod support rings will work on both the LEM/CONT and LEM/LER. If they do, I might cancel my Leica R to M and go Novoflex.

 

Wilson

[jcraf]

I spoke to a total idiot at Leica UK last week, who said it was not his business to give me any updates as to when my dealer could expect any deliveries of R to M adapters or the MF grip, that I have now had on order for 15 months. My dealer said that Leica UK is completely keeping them in the dark. This was two weeks after the nice lady on the phone at Leica UK suggested I phone Mayfair every ten days to get an update on deliveries. I should have got his name, so that I could write to Leica at Solms to suggest he finds alternative employment more suited to his people skills. Maybe a pig slaughterman. I was so stunned by his unhelpful and unpleasant demeanour that I put the phone down before I thought to ask.

 

Wilson

 

Wilson

 

You'd have thought that there be hundreds of eager young men and women keen to work for such an iconic brand. I wonder how on earth Leica justifies employing people with an attitude problem. One presumes the individual can at least read, thus knows a bit about this famous company, and last but not least understands just how much customers pay for the products which keep him in his job.

 

We deserve better than this.

 

As an aside I picked up my 6 bitted Novoflex LEMLER today from Speed Graphic in Alton,and despite an initial wobble (and a deleted stroppy post.......), it now seems to work just fine.

 

Regards

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[k-hawinkler]

If we are talking about the 28-90, this is not the case; it's Leica designed and built.

 

Thanks John.

 

... and the Leica R 28-90 works exceedingly well on my Sony A7R!

I certainly have no regrets having turned down a silver M240 after having waited in line for over a year.

[wlaidlaw]

John,

 

Does that mean the 110111 code is picking up properly? A number of folks seem to have ended up returning/exchanging their LEM/LER adapters because the code would not pick up on the M240. We all know the M240 is very fussy on picking up codes and refuses to pick up third party coded lenses/adapters that have worked just fine on the M8 and M9. I am hoping crossed fingers that all five of my Taylor coded lenses will work well (15mm CV, 25mm ZM Biogon, 40mm Summicron, 50mm ZM Planar and 90mm Elmarit-M), when they arrive on Saturday.

 

Wilson