dwbell Posted September 4, 2013 Share #1 Posted September 4, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well, not exactly flickering, but rapidly changing in brightness on occasion, enough for me to notice. I think it's usually in very low light? Where's the sensor that tells the internal LED how bright to be? How many brightness levels are there? The noticeable change suggest to me that there are 2 maybe 3 discrete steps in frameline brightness and it's not a smooth linear increase / decrease. Anyone else experienced this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 4, 2013 Posted September 4, 2013 Hi dwbell, Take a look here M240 framelines 'flickering'?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
earleygallery Posted September 4, 2013 Share #2 Posted September 4, 2013 Isn't it measured by the light sensor on the front of the camera (the same one that guesses the aperture used) ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted September 4, 2013 Share #3 Posted September 4, 2013 The framelines' brightness adapts to the ambient light. In low light there typically are a few bright light sources surrounded by darkness, and this may irritate the ambient light meter for a second to two. Furthermore, there is some delay to the reaction to changing light so the framelines' brightness will adapt smoothly rather than jumping around wildly ... but when the ambient light changes rapidly, then changes back, then changes again, this can lead to some unexpected reactions of the framelines. But then, this will never last longer than a couple of seconds and isn't really an issue. Overall, the LED-illuminated framelines indeed are an improvement over the traditional illumination. At first I was sceptical but now I appreciate the new way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted September 4, 2013 Share #4 Posted September 4, 2013 If you are using a new battery and it has had very few charges that could also contribute to the issue. I had a battery that had to be returned as it just would not hold charge even after 8-10 charges. Also make sure you seat the battery very well as the spring is now stronger. I am sure you have done that since you are not new to Leica, but just wanted to also mention that just in case. Also take a look in the bottom of the battery compartment to make nothing foreign is way down inside. Sorry for the generic answers, but I have not had that occurrence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalArts 99 Posted September 4, 2013 Share #5 Posted September 4, 2013 Just curious... with the new M and its illuminated frame lines, can one switch back and forth through the different frame lines? In other words, is there an electronic replacement for the conventional frame line lever that used to be on Leica M cameras? And if not, does anyone miss not having that capability anymore? (The other day I was using a rented Nikon D800E alongside with a film M4 and used the frame line lever on the Leica to help make a quick sort of frame check for changing the lens on the Nikon.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted September 4, 2013 Share #6 Posted September 4, 2013 I miss that lever. From my knowledge it is activated my the lens which is attached. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted September 4, 2013 Share #7 Posted September 4, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) ... is there an electronic replacement for the conventional frame line lever that used to be on Leica M cameras? No, there isn't. And if not, does anyone miss not having that capability anymore? No, I don't. Instead, I miss having it. It's really useful at times. Still, it's a minor loss when compared to all the M (Typ 240)'s new features and improvements. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
canlogic Posted September 4, 2013 Share #8 Posted September 4, 2013 Maybe they could do an electronic version of the lever in firmware. Use the M button to cycle through the combinations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted September 6, 2013 Share #9 Posted September 6, 2013 When I first used my M I noticed that the framelines could be unevenly lit- with one side of the frame not showing up much - if at all. I realised after a while that the bayonet was not locking perfectly and activating the correct line sets. By twiddling the lens in the mount a fraction the frames would appear correctly (the lens was already locked in). This issue seems to have resolved itself after a weeks use- the mount settled in? I also am finding that in low light conditions- the frames can become quite dim- too dim for my tastes- when set to the auto illumination setting. I wish there was some way to adjust the default overall brightness level in the auto setting... I would like it if it could be a fraction brighter over its range. This is different than simply de-activating the auto setting and having a fixed brightness... I still like having the frames adjust according to lighting conditions. I think it would be a good addition for the firmware if it is possible? Overall I do like the LED illuminated frames over the traditional natural light system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicaiste Posted September 6, 2013 Share #10 Posted September 6, 2013 Where's the sensor that tells the internal LED how bright to be? On the back of the camera, between LEICA CAMERA and MADE IN GERMANY. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted September 6, 2013 Share #11 Posted September 6, 2013 So are you blocking this sensor from time to time making the frame lines flicker? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted September 6, 2013 Author Share #12 Posted September 6, 2013 So are you blocking this sensor from time to time making the frame lines flicker? Not sure to be honest. I'm right eyed, and have very short hair, don't wear caps / hats etc while shooting so I can't imagine I'm any different to most shooters in that respect. I'm thinking back though as to whether the EVF was mounted at the time, which drops down and shades that area (from memory, don't have the camera with me) and maybe contributes in low changing light somehow? Maybe right thumb, EVF create deep shade and occasionally a light source from behind right will hit that sensor? The flickering literally being repeated in the frameline? More careful notice of when it happens required. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted September 6, 2013 Share #13 Posted September 6, 2013 Where's the sensor that tells the internal LED how bright to be?On the back of the camera, between LEICA CAMERA and MADE IN GERMANY. Of course not! It's the "Blue Eye"—the same sensor that also provides the ambient brightness data for estimating the aperture ... the small, round one on the camera's front, between the viewfinder and range-meter windows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted September 6, 2013 Share #14 Posted September 6, 2013 Maybe they could do an electronic version of the lever in firmware. Use the M button to cycle through the combinations. The frame-lines may be LED (electronically) illuminated, but they are still selected mechanically. There is no link between the camera electronics and the frame-line selection mechanism. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
canlogic Posted September 6, 2013 Share #15 Posted September 6, 2013 I realize that but thought maybe there might be a way to activate them electronically. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 6, 2013 Share #16 Posted September 6, 2013 No, because it is still a mechanical system. The only difference to the traditional ones is the illumination that if provided by a LED instead of the illumination window. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicaiste Posted September 6, 2013 Share #17 Posted September 6, 2013 Of course not! It's the "Blue Eye"—the same sensor that also provides the ambient brightness data for estimating the aperture ... the small, round one on the camera's front, between the viewfinder and range-meter windows. My mistake, on the back it is the sensor for the back screen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalArts 99 Posted September 7, 2013 Share #18 Posted September 7, 2013 No, I don't. Instead, I miss having it. It's really useful at times. Still, it's a minor loss when compared to all the M (Typ 240)'s new features and improvements. A proper answer to my improperly worded question Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted September 7, 2013 Share #19 Posted September 7, 2013 I have experienced this many times. I believe this happens to me under the condition of having the ambient light changing or the LV activated on the rear LCD. I'm not totally sure yet, but I think it is the reflection of the LCD off of your face into the sensor while the scene lighting changes. I can't remember having the flickering framelines when the LCD is off yet. Can you duplicate this when the LCD is off? I can stand under a bright halogen downlight and wave my finger over the sensor and get a somewhat similar effect. I've decided that I don't have a bad LED or connection or some other electronic problem. It has to do with lighting change and the algorithm Leica is using. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted September 7, 2013 Author Share #20 Posted September 7, 2013 Yeah, been thinking some more Rick and I suspect a dominant source like a TV in a bar or external fluorescent advertisement. Where it's variable output is significantly higher than the ambient light and thus confuses the algorithm? Only odd thing is, that using the same blue eye sensor as per 0laf's post I would expect my exposure to be jumping all over the place too. That I would have noticed first and foremost, but I haven't. Got a three week trip with my ladies coming up (wife, daughter & M240 - in no particular order ) where I'll observe experiences. Plenty of outside bars etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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