l.ceva Posted April 10, 2007 Share #1  Posted April 10, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Here are two pictures taken with M8 and 28 SUMMICRON, the first one has the IR cut filter (LEICA) the second one is with out filter.  I read a 3D reporting no problems with reflections but I am not surprised about my results!!   ciao  Lorenzo  LORENZO CEVA VALLA - fotografia digitale Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/21096-ir-cut-filter-and-reflections/?do=findComment&comment=224405'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 10, 2007 Posted April 10, 2007 Hi l.ceva, Take a look here IR cut filter and reflections. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
ho_co Posted April 10, 2007 Share #2 Â Posted April 10, 2007 Lorenzo-- Good test, and as you said, the results are unfortunately not surprising. Â Erwin Puts made the same discovery and wrote it up at Testreports. Â It begins to look as if we now have one more decision to make before making each exposure: use the IR cut filter or not. Â --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted April 10, 2007 Share #3 Â Posted April 10, 2007 It is an old piece of advice to remove the filter in heavily backlit situations, or with strong light sources in the picture. This is as true with common UVa filters as with the UV-IR type. After all, coating does not suppress reflections completely. The only way to do that is a front cap ... Â The old man from the Age Before Coating Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 10, 2007 Share #4 Â Posted April 10, 2007 I agree, Lars. However, we do have another option now: clone out the unwanted reflections. Â Another old man from the digital age Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted April 10, 2007 Share #5 Â Posted April 10, 2007 Sir, how is it that some black colors look magenta on my pics? - Perfectly normal dude. There is not such thing as perfect black. Magenta is a kind of black not-so-black black sort of, everybody knows this. Â OK Sir, but how is it that we have to use IR-cut filters then if this is perfectly normal? - Perfectly normal mate. Any self-respected Leicaphile used to use protective UV filters in the old days didn't they? Now they simply have to use UV-IR's instead to protect their little gems from dangerous radiations called Infra-Red (ouch). Â But Sir, how is it that when i use those filters i get reflections, ghost images and that sort of things? - Perfectly normal folk. Leica has always taught us that filters are unnecessary... except when they are necessary of course. Now filters are simply more necessary than before that's all. Suffice it to remove the filters when there are more bright lights than magenta blacks to shoot at. Simple no? Â Got it Sir! Perfectly normal Sir! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 10, 2007 Share #6 Â Posted April 10, 2007 LOL Excellent synopsis! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billh Posted April 10, 2007 Share #7 Â Posted April 10, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) LCT, That was wonderful! I will write it down and carry this with me. Then before I take a photo I will check to see if it is necessary to remove the filter. Or not. Â What does Leica recommend I do to keep the filter clean and dust free while it is removed, and should I explain these instructions to the subjects of the photo when I ask them to remain at their task, and look relaxed and natural while I determine whether the photo requires a filter or not, and then make the necessary changes to my lens? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted April 10, 2007 Share #8 Â Posted April 10, 2007 Those filters are perfect to draw subjects' attention to the photog at least. What? I said it already? Oops sorry... Â Â Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted April 10, 2007 Share #9  Posted April 10, 2007 It is an old piece of advice to remove the filter in heavily backlit situations, or with strong light sources in the picture. This is as true with common UVa filters as with the UV-IR type. After all, coating does not suppress reflections completely. The only way to do that is a front cap ... The old man from the Age Before Coating  Right, this is an old problem that is not directly related to the M8, IR-cut filters, etc. Even the best multi-coated filter can show reflections, etc. under exactly the wrong conditions - usually bright light sources against darker backgrounds. Under those circumstances, I think one is best off removing the filter and (if the pictures are color) using Jamie's profiles or the like if needed to correct for the IR color casts.  Cheers,  Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted April 10, 2007 Share #10 Â Posted April 10, 2007 Yes perfectly normal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted April 10, 2007 Share #11 Â Posted April 10, 2007 Yes perfectly normal. Â Normal for filters, yes. Â Cheers, Â Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted April 10, 2007 Share #12 Â Posted April 10, 2007 Right, this is an old problem that is not directly related to the M8 Â I take your point but many of us wouldn't be using a filter at all if it wasn't for the IR sensitivity of the M8. I've had IR/UV filters since around Christmas and have been inclined to think that the filters are a non-issue. However, I am beginning to see the odd image creeping in where the filters have introduced some problematic reflections and/or flare and am now considering taking the filters off. What I don't want to get into is a situation where I am constantly thinking whether I should leave the damn things on or off! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 10, 2007 Share #13 Â Posted April 10, 2007 Those filters are perfect to draw subjects' attention to the photog at least.What? I said it already? Oops sorry... Â Â Â I dunno- if your avatar is a self portrait that might be the problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthury Posted April 10, 2007 Share #14 Â Posted April 10, 2007 For those who are dead against using the IR filter except for shooting subjects in black materials, what about the issue regarding IR light causing a slight drop in focus? Recall the good old days of shooting IR photos? Â Do you guys notice that in incandescent lighting, without the filter, images are not as sharp without the filter? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 10, 2007 Share #15 Â Posted April 10, 2007 it is not just black, any IR reflecting surface will be influenced in colour. And I agree with the unsharp overlay argument, which I must confess never have tested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted April 10, 2007 Share #16 Â Posted April 10, 2007 I take your point but many of us wouldn't be using a filter at all if it wasn't for the IR sensitivity of the M8. Â That's true. Some people use protective filters as a rule of thumb but I'm among the group that tends not to use filters at all (unless I must). I do much of my work in B&W, where I use no filter on the M8 lenses. For M8 color work that involves bright lights in the frame, my recommendation has been to pull the filters and use the Jamie profiles if needed. I haven't yet had a filter-related problem with subjects lit by sun, it's more the night subjects that can sometimes pose problems. Â That said, its important to clarify that this is a general problem with even the best filters and is not specific to the 486 filters, etc. Â Like most, I'd rather not have to deal with the filters but I like the M8 so much that I do what I must to work with it. Â Cheers, Â Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirvine Posted April 10, 2007 Share #17 Â Posted April 10, 2007 I really don't get it...if you don't like using filters and you shoot color, don't use an M8. Unless you feel cheated because you pre-ordered back before Leica acknowleged the IR sensitivity, you really have nothing to complain about. It's called 'informed consent'. It's one thing to be a demanding customer, but something entirely different to mock a manufacturer with this tone of entitlement to absolute perfection. News flash: $5000 is not the price of perfection. Sorry about that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
l.ceva Posted April 10, 2007 Author Share #18  Posted April 10, 2007 I really don't get it...if you don't like using filters and you shoot color, don't use an M8. Unless you feel cheated because you pre-ordered back before Leica acknowleged the IR sensitivity, you really have nothing to complain about. It's called 'informed consent'. It's one thing to be a demanding customer, but something entirely different to mock a manufacturer with this tone of entitlement to absolute perfection. News flash: $5000 is not the price of perfection. Sorry about that.    Thankyou for your advice about the price of perfection!!  I have so meny complains that I brought an M8 with 5 brand new lens and I am going to buy another M8!  ciao  Lorenzo  http://www.lorenzocevavalla.it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirvine Posted April 10, 2007 Share #19 Â Posted April 10, 2007 Lorenzo, Â I wasn't really aiming my comment at you, by the way. Your test is actually very fair. It was all the snide griping further down that gets on my nerves. I'll go have a coffee and get on with my life....too short to be negative! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
l.ceva Posted April 10, 2007 Author Share #20  Posted April 10, 2007 Lorenzo, life....too short to be negative!  Totally agee with you!! unfortunately there are so many possible reasons to be negative just a bit more important than this forum!!!  I understood that your message was not for me but I answerd only because as I opened this 3D I felt a bit "responsible".  My intent was not to comaplain but just to show what can happen in some particoular cases and as I said I did not expect a different behavior.  ciao  Lorenzo  LORENZO CEVA VALLA - fotografia digitale Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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