dwbell Posted August 13, 2013 Share #21 Posted August 13, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Their technology? The RF mechanism peaked a while back and they are still the best optical engineers out there. As for everything else they have no 'technology' to speak of. They use old stuff from other people. If you did not mean this as a call for newest technology and own production, what on earth is the meaning of this fling then? As usual we misunderstand each other Jaap. It's nice to know some things are constant. Stable. Secure. I was cynically commenting that using the profits from this proposed camera to 'take their technology to new heights' was an odd phrase as they are not cutting edge. Far from it. So, relatively, cutting a thread properly would be 'new heights'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 13, 2013 Posted August 13, 2013 Hi dwbell, Take a look here Leica is blowing it. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
naturephoto1 Posted August 13, 2013 Share #22 Posted August 13, 2013 I think that it would make sense. Especially since they abandoned and threw away much of their customer base that had been long time R users (never made the R10 or digital successor). This might be a way of getting some of us back especially if they would include the ability to scroll in the EVF and offer a substantially longer long shutter speed. Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted August 13, 2013 Share #23 Posted August 13, 2013 People who say the RF is old fashioned and thus obsolete miss the whole appeal of the M. I still thing it's the best MF implementation to date. Saying that I think there is room for a M mount camera in the Leica range with no RF. however it would have to have AF. Perhaps there will be two classes of M lenses. Metal MF small lenses and larger mostly plastic AF lenses with AF motors. It's not possible to have a motor drive something of the current M lens's construction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted August 13, 2013 Share #24 Posted August 13, 2013 People who say the RF is old fashioned and thus obsolete miss the whole appeal of the M. I still thing it's the best MF implementation to date. Saying that I think there is room for a M mount camera in the Leica range with no RF. however it would have to have AF. Perhaps there will be two classes of M lenses. Metal MF small lenses and larger mostly plastic AF lenses with AF motors. It's not possible to have a motor drive something of the current M lens's construction. Why would it have to have AF? The M240 with MF and peeking is excellent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted August 13, 2013 Share #25 Posted August 13, 2013 That is why I have always favoured a 2 body solution, one with RF and one with integral EVF. I think Leica will bring this additional EVF body by the end of next year, if I understood Dr. Kaufmann's allusions. A 2-body solution makes sense. The concept is similar to the three variations of the viewfinder on earlier cameras (0.58, 0.72 and 0.85). The body with RF (the current M) has an optional EVF anyway, so one can have an EVF with either body, but one can have an RF only with the RF body. The one with EVF will presumably be less expensive. Not cheap, just cheaper. Making a $4K EVF M body would not be a "race to the bottom". No one makes a $4K full frame M-mount body. The competition at this price point is from used M9's. Sony and Fuji make ~$1K bodies that will mount M lenses with adapters, but they are APS-C and lack Leica design. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted August 13, 2013 Share #26 Posted August 13, 2013 Perhaps we should have a new forum entitled, self-appointed brand managers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WPalank Posted August 13, 2013 Share #27 Posted August 13, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Moderators, can we please combine this with the 20 other Leica has blown it...is blowing it...Blows... posts? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanJW Posted August 13, 2013 Share #28 Posted August 13, 2013 Haven't we learned yet that Leica marches to its own drummer? A drummer who is different than those Sony and Nikon and Canon hear. I'm all for an EVF camera. I like EVFs.. But I have also found that the optical rangefinder is more accurate than an EVF, even one with focus peaking. If Leica makes a EVIL camera that takes M lenses I will buy one for sure but it will supplement my M, not replace it. Maybe the mysterious C camera will surprise us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted August 13, 2013 Share #29 Posted August 13, 2013 Perhaps we should have a new forum entitled, self-appointed brand managers. No, it should be titled Self-Appointed Brand Managers and Armchair CEOs. But I don't accept this as criticism. People rightfully discuss their hopes & wishes for future products. It's good fun and harmless to discuss — why shouldn't they? It doesn't mean people are pretending they can run the company. There were self-appoint brand managers and armchair CEOs who proposed all sorts of crazy things — including a CMOS-sensor M camera with improved high ISO performance, improved rangefinder, a quieter shutter with better feel, live view, focus peaking, video mode, optional EVF, R-lens adapter, thumb rest, etc. Ha, what did they know?! If Leica makes a EVIL camera that takes M lenses I will buy one for sure but it will supplement my M, not replace it. You and others too. There is a ready market for this type of camera, assuming it's well-designed and built. Whenever anyone proposes a new type of M, we hear a reply that this will be the end of the company. But camera makers are adept at making different products for different price levels and thus expanding their market, including the market for their lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 13, 2013 Share #30 Posted August 13, 2013 I think that it would make sense. Especially since they abandoned and threw away much of their customer base that had been long time R users (never made the R10 or digital successor). This might be a way of getting some of us back especially if they would include the ability to scroll in the EVF and offer a substantially longer long shutter speed. Rich Did they throw away much of their customer base? Many if not most R owners had an M system as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted August 13, 2013 Share #31 Posted August 13, 2013 I don't get it. For years people sang Leica's praises over SLRs because it allows the photographer to see a clear image outside the framelines, and has no viewfinder blackout at the moment of exposure. Now people are clamoring for an EVF-only body, which has less clarity and longer blackout than an SLR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted August 13, 2013 Share #32 Posted August 13, 2013 Perhaps we should have a new forum entitled, self-appointed brand managers. You are on it ! Try a hippie forum for karma Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted August 13, 2013 Share #33 Posted August 13, 2013 I don't get it. For years people sang Leica's praises over SLRs because it allows the photographer to see a clear image outside the framelines, and has no viewfinder blackout at the moment of exposure. Now people are clamoring for an EVF-only body, which has less clarity and longer blackout than an SLR. The OP is asking for an EVF camera or a cheaper rangefinder camera. And when people do ask for an EVF-only body, it doesn't mean they are saying Leica should stop making rangefinders, or that they are negating rangefinder advantages over SLRs. They are asking for something in addition to the standard rangefinder body. An addition. A second body. Not a replacement. These are not contradictions. They are not mutually exclusive. People can sing the praises of rangefinders and also enjoy an EVF-only body. Perhaps use them with different focal lengths. Perhaps use the EVF body as an entry point into the system, and later buy a traditional rangefinder body. As for a longer blackout, that just depends on the state of the technology; it's not necessarily longer than that of an SLR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 13, 2013 Share #34 Posted August 13, 2013 We'll have this mirrorless soon or late but i won't be full frame. Old debate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted August 13, 2013 Share #35 Posted August 13, 2013 After visiting the factory yesterday I do believe Leica cannot get into too many models simultaneously as they are stretched now. I saw many very young workers, more than I expected to see, and while that is important for the long term, these new workers will take many years to be experts at the company. I did not see many younger workers in the lens department although I did see many in the future product area working lathes, etc. (Maybe they could just start out machining those R-M adapters we are waiting to see. I must say I was surprised to see that lens mounts and camera mounts were being turned out within the Leica factory as I had the assumption from other posts that those items were made by Wella, or others. Sorry, I got off topic, but any new camera just might have to wait a long time and once the entire 800 employees have settled into the new factory sometime next year. This move will not happen overnight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpwhite Posted August 14, 2013 Share #36 Posted August 14, 2013 After visiting the factory yesterday I do believe Leica cannot get into too many models simultaneously as they are stretched now. I saw many very young workers, more than I expected to see, and while that is important for the long term, these new workers will take many years to be experts at the company. I did not see many younger workers in the lens department although I did see many in the future product area working lathes, etc. (Maybe they could just start out machining those R-M adapters we are waiting to see. I must say I was surprised to see that lens mounts and camera mounts were being turned out within the Leica factory as I had the assumption from other posts that those items were made by Wella, or others. Sorry, I got off topic, but any new camera just might have to wait a long time and once the entire 800 employees have settled into the new factory sometime next year. This move will not happen overnight. Lou, thanks for the very interesting comments! Now I know why my Leica lenses do fit more positively to my bodies that ZM lenses (even the German ZM's). But I cannot resist asking... did you pick up your 4th M240 when you visited Solms? Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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