benmk12com Posted August 7, 2013 Share #1 Posted August 7, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'll be the first to admit that I'm a Leica snob; my first camera was a Digilux 2, and I've since upgraded to a Digilux 3 and also own a D-Lux3 for casual shooting. As there will be no Digilux 4, I've been considering upgrading to an M8. I am just a hobbyist, so investing in a new camera, especially one as pricey as an M8 + lenses, is a big commitment. I'm certain that most Leica users feel the same loyalty to the brand, which is why it's difficult to find objective reviews of the M8. Yes, it's a spectacular camera, but if the branding, the case, all of that were stripped away and we just considered the hardware, firmware & optics, what is the justification for spending a few thousand more than a high-end Canon with more MP's & features? Thank you! Ben Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 7, 2013 Posted August 7, 2013 Hi benmk12com, Take a look here M8 straight talk. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted August 7, 2013 Share #2 Posted August 7, 2013 Which Canon? Afaik they don't sell a digital rangefinder. I would not classify most of our members as Leica snobs. Many own multiple systems of various brands and buy cameras for what they are, not for the name. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
benmk12com Posted August 7, 2013 Author Share #3 Posted August 7, 2013 Compared to, say, a 5D or a Nikon D3. The rangefinder does set it apart from those guys of course, but I suppose that's also wrapped into my question: does that alone justify the added expense? I've owned an Epson RD-1 rangefinder and did enjoy using it, but it's not a make-or-break feature for me. Mostly I want the flexibility of multiple lenses and would love to stay in the Leica family, as my Digilux 3 has been invaluable, but it seems like my options are limited these days. Thank you! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 7, 2013 Share #4 Posted August 7, 2013 Welcome to the forum The justifications are the rangefinder of course and the use of Leica lenses in the best conditions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 7, 2013 Share #5 Posted August 7, 2013 Well, the difference might be in the DNA. Basically the Digiluxes are rebranded other makes (although Leica probably had a lot of input in the Digilux2), but the M series is an independent development. As Jaques says, lenses and I would add concept. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted August 7, 2013 Share #6 Posted August 7, 2013 Apologies for regurgitating an old mantra of mine. Decide your task and then select the tool best suited to perform it. Leica RF cameras and Canikon cameras serve different tasks better. Frequently you may need both. They do not replace each other. In the real world, where many of us dwell, we are confined financially to one or another system which must then cover 'all bases' for us. My choice is Leica RF cameras for nearly all I do. That decision is my assessment of the SUM of all qualities rather than specific features. eg. Canikon are generally better for tele work; Leica is much more portable, etc. there are many more features to assess of course and it of necessity can only be answered by the individual. My (anyones) opinion may help, or may be totally useless to anyone else. Methinks you have reached decision time. It's a lonely but worthwhile experience. Good luck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dblrifle Posted August 7, 2013 Share #7 Posted August 7, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) It's hard to justify the price under any circumstance. I bought my first Leica in 1956,it was a IIIc with a 50mm collapsible Summar lense. Have used Leica's almost steadily ever since but have also used pro grade DSLR's also for the Tele capability. I finally have arthritis rather badly and carrying and using one of my D2x's with a 30mm lense got to be too much so I went to leica M8's. I have 2 M8's ,one with 40mm f1.4 Voigtlander and one with 21mm f4 Voigtlander and they fill all my needs. Most of my shots today are snapshot types for memories more than any thing else. The reason for Leica's is they are rather small (relatively ,compared to a D2x) and easier to hold and carry and the M8's are digital. I also have an M3SS I have had many years but film is far more inconvenient than digital. If anyone else made a digital rangefinder of comparable qualiity I would happily buy it. I had absolutely no complaints with the Voigtlander series as it was comparable to the Leica in a film camera.The last Leicas I used extensively was a pair of M6's with which I was perfectly pleased. I would have been equally happy with a pair of comparable Voigtlanders. While I don't feel the price of a new Leica M is justified I can't find an equivalent body on the market today. I would probably buy an M-E could I afford one as it has all the capabilities I require. I have no reason to ever need a video capability or a liveview. Since I am 79 years of age I feel I am fairly certain of this. The used prices on an M8 today seem to be an equitable price for what you recieve. Both my used M 8's have every appearance of being new with zero signs of wear altough they both have slightly in excess of 6000 actuations. One is SUPPOSED to have a 'coffee stain' but for the life of me I can't see it. Sadly enough I don't understand the mystique of the Leica lense. I frankly can't see it but then I have great difficuly in seeing many of the 'defects' many others can see in a picture. My old eyes just don't see that critically. For that reason I rarely critique anothers pictures except for composition. For some years while in the service I went to Canon IVS2's 7's and Nikon S3&S4 and always went back to Leica. There is something about a Leica's feel and general build that is indefinably superior to anything else I have ever handled. Wish I could put my finger on it as I could probably sell it to some of the competition. It's like the feel of a Snap-On wrench as opposed to a Williams or Craftsman. While they are all 3 of equal quality as to strength and will unboubtly do the job there is just something aboutthe feel of a Snap-On that just makes the job easier. Silly on the face of it,but true. Probability a combination of appearance and finish and feel, but all three will do the exact same job efficiently. I shall probably continue to use Leica's as long as i can. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
don_panko Posted August 7, 2013 Share #8 Posted August 7, 2013 Check out the thread about the M8 and old glass. That's the biggest reason that I enjoy my M8. The ergonomics and controls and classic and the old lenses produce the kind of images that I love. It's that simple. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
benmk12com Posted August 7, 2013 Author Share #9 Posted August 7, 2013 very helpful, guys. Thank you so much! Dblrifle: I think you nailed it with the Snap-On vs. WIlliams analogy. More than any other camera I've owned my Digi3 simply feels 'right' in my hands, and most of the time I don't even think about it being there when I shoot, which is ultimately what matters most to me when looking for a new camera. It sounds like that's been your experience with the M8? Jaapv: so no Panasonic hardware at all? In your opinion, is that for better or worse? Much appreciated! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Lss- Posted August 7, 2013 Share #10 Posted August 7, 2013 Compared to, say, a 5D or a Nikon D3. The rangefinder does set it apart from those guys of course, but I suppose that's also wrapped into my question: does that alone justify the added expense? I've owned an Epson RD-1 rangefinder and did enjoy using it, but it's not a make-or-break feature for me. Mostly I want the flexibility of multiple lenses and would love to stay in the Leica family If you don't prefer using a rangefinder camera, you have pretty much an endless list of alternatives. You can even use Leica M and/or R mount lenses on many other cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted August 7, 2013 Share #11 Posted August 7, 2013 Although I don't own one, have you considered the X Vario? That would cost about the same as a used M8 and one lens, but would perform more like a modern Digilux 2 with its zoom lens and manual controls. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 7, 2013 Share #12 Posted August 7, 2013 very helpful, guys. Thank you so much! Dblrifle: I think you nailed it with the Snap-On vs. WIlliams analogy. More than any other camera I've owned my Digi3 simply feels 'right' in my hands, and most of the time I don't even think about it being there when I shoot, which is ultimately what matters most to me when looking for a new camera. It sounds like that's been your experience with the M8? Jaapv: so no Panasonic hardware at all? In your opinion, is that for better or worse? Much appreciated! Depends on the camera, I guess. The Digilux2 is still a wonderful camera, the Digilux3 despite doing its daily job at my work flawlessly has never managed to make itself loved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted August 7, 2013 Share #13 Posted August 7, 2013 Rumour has it the word "clunker" was invented specifically to describe the Leica Diigilux 3. It's a brave person who admits to owning one. Remember that lens road map shared by Leica and Panasonic? I think the 25mm Summilux sort of made it but after Leica started giving them away with R bodies, the game was up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 7, 2013 Share #14 Posted August 7, 2013 Reading this thread I have a strong feeling that the XVario is the ideal camera for the OP Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted August 7, 2013 Share #15 Posted August 7, 2013 The rangefinder does set it apart from those guys of course, but I suppose that's also wrapped into my question: does that alone justify the added expense? I've owned an Epson RD-1 rangefinder and did enjoy using it, but it's not a make-or-break feature for me. I think that you answered your own question. The whole point about the M series has been about it being a rangefinder system. If it isn't what you feel you really want/need then go for something else more suited to your needs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeTexas Posted August 7, 2013 Share #16 Posted August 7, 2013 If you loved the Digilux3, why not get the newest Panasonic m4/3s and use your lenses from the Digilux? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
benmk12com Posted August 8, 2013 Author Share #17 Posted August 8, 2013 Thank you again for all the thoughts! I have considered the X Vario as well as some of the micro 4/3 cameras on the market; my argument against the Vario is the fixed lens, and m4/3's just don't feel robust enough. For those of you who use an M8 often, do you find that the rangefinder has distinct advantages over a reflex system other than the speed? I don't like or dislike the concept; I just don't have enough experience using one. My worry is that the system will be counterintuitive to a guy who's used reflexes all his life. I do believe in meeting a camera halfway, it's just a lot to spend without much perspective Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted August 8, 2013 Share #18 Posted August 8, 2013 Some people get along fine with RF, despite coming from (D)SLRs, and others don't, regardless of prior experience. Many folks use a variety of systems. The ONLY way for you to know is to use one and find out. Buy, borrow or rent a camera (you can rent various M models if you're in the US). Even if you buy, you're unlikely to lose much cost-wise if you don't mesh with the system. Just buy from a reputable dealer, with warranty. For me, the key is how I see the subject; beyond that, focusing, ergonomics, size (including lenses), etc. are all important. YMMV, as they say. Try it. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted August 8, 2013 Share #19 Posted August 8, 2013 ben****, why not see a dealer and hire/borrow one to see how the range-finding suits you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted August 8, 2013 Share #20 Posted August 8, 2013 Echo in here? Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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