m240 Faulty power switch? Self timer operating when not set

[jaques]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

it just happened again:confused: and I didn't have a chance to capture it on film... I could photograph the dial sitting firmly planted on S mode (where I always have it and never bump it- I virtually never use C mode, and only use the timer on a tripod).

 

I had just convinced myself it had fixed itself again too. Hope springs eternal (and is eternally dashed... in the end). So that's that: I was going to suggest to Leica either a full replacement: or a written guarantee that if the error occurred again the camera would be replaced immediately. I already happened again so it has to be a replacement camera. I will start making the calls tomorrow.

 

 

I have a question: could this issue be recorded in the full metadata? Does it record if the camera is on S, C or timer mode? If it showed the camera on S mode- but the self timer coming on- then I would have my proof.

 

also I just noticed my photo #'s in lightroom: they start at L1009912

 

Does this mean my 'new' camera has fired off over 9900 shots already?? That's more than I put on my M9-P in two years:rolleyes: and I have only shot maybe 300 on the M myself.

Edited December 10, 2013 by jaques

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[LocalHero1953]

UK law and Australian law have some common features, but I'm not sure how far that goes in consumer issues. Even though in this case the fault appears to be Leica's, in the UK it is the responsibility of the retailer to sort it out, or provide a replacement, or provide a refund; what the manufacturer will or won't do is irrelevant - in law. The retailer may not see this as fair, but that is who your "contract" is with, not not Leica. Is that the same case with you? Has your retailer offered any redress?

PS I'm not a lawyer!

[jaapv]

it just happened again:confused: and I didn't have a chance to capture it on film... I could photograph the dial sitting firmly planted on S mode (where I always have it and never bump it- I virtually never use C mode, and only use the timer on a tripod).

 

I had just convinced myself it had fixed itself again too. Hope springs eternal (and is eternally dashed... in the end). So that's that: I was going to suggest to Leica either a full replacement: or a written guarantee that if the error occurred again the camera would be replaced immediately. I already happened again so it has to be a replacement camera. I will start making the calls tomorrow.

 

 

I have a question: could this issue be recorded in the full metadata? Does it record if the camera is on S, C or timer mode? If it showed the camera on S mode- but the self timer coming on- then I would have my proof.

 

also I just noticed my photo #'s in lightroom: they start at L1009912

 

Does this mean my 'new' camera has fired off over 9900 shots already?? That's more than I put on my M9-P in two years:rolleyes: and I have only shot maybe 300 on the M myself.

No that only means you have, at one point, inserted a card with a filenumber L1009xxx.Or somebody in Leica CS did so.

[jaques]

really? So the camera will change to reflect whatever number is on a card (presumably a number from another camera)- and set it as the default? I am confused by that if it is true.

[lct]

It is true.

[barjohn]

There is a lot of hidden data in the EXIF that you can not normally see with most EXIF data shown in applications like LR or C1. However, it may be worth looking at the EXIF of the captured image. If you send me the file when I get back home from my current business trip on Friday I could try and decode it for you. Just PM me for my email.

[jaques]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Thanks for the offer John. Can you get that data from a downsized Jpeg? here is the image: I pressed the shutter precisely 12 seconds before it was taken- dial set firmly to S mode- I was running inside to (vainly try to) get my iphone to video it when the shutter fired:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited December 11, 2013 by jaques

[jaques]

It is true.

 

I am confused then... I just checked the first image I took with the camera - it was number Ll000001.

 

then after I got the camera back from Solms- I inserted a card- reformatted it- as I always do- took a shot- and the number was L1009912?

 

How does that work?

Edited December 11, 2013 by jaques

[barjohn]

Thanks for the offer John. Can you get that data from a downsized Jpeg? here is the image: I pressed the shutter precisely 12 seconds before it was taken- dial set firmly to S mode- I was running inside to (vainly try to) get my iphone to video it when the shutter fired:

 

I would need the full original JPG or DNG file to ensue I had an unmodified EXIF.

[jaques]

when I processed the DNG in LR I exported it and selected 'include full metadata'? but if it isn't all there- how can I best send you the large DNG file? I am on a mac- and have access to their (NSA riddled) cloud- but I have never used the feature...

 

Or instead of sending it- is there any way I can look at the metadata myself easily? If I could access it I could post the text here for expert evaluation... Do I need some kind of program? I am a complete imbecile in these matters....

 

when I ouput that JPEG I selected included 'full metadata'.

Edited December 11, 2013 by jaques

[barjohn]

Jaques,

 

It requires a special command line program on your Mac. I have it on my Mac at home but not here on the road with me. You can try and upload to my public DropBox folder

 

It require special effort to decode the information so it is easier for me to look and see if it is there rather than trying to explain to you how to do it.

 

If it won't let you, let me know and I will provide an alternate means but not today as I have to get some sleep.

[nlm6]

My camera has the same problem. Every now and then it will start the self timer when set to S.

I had not had it happen for about a month then it just happened again a few days ago.

 

Nate

[jaques]

really? Yours is the first other account of this issue I have seen posted anywhere. It is very annoying isn't it? Whilst I am sorry for you- I am happy to hear that this is not totally isolated to my camera. Perhaps if it occurs to more users Solms will be more inclined to believe me- and to figure out why it happens.

Edited December 11, 2013 by jaques

[jaapv]

I am confused then... I just checked the first image I took with the camera - it was number Ll000001.

 

then after I got the camera back from Solms- I inserted a card- reformatted it- as I always do- took a shot- and the number was L1009912?

 

How does that work?

The camera will remember the highest number used, so in your case that is the number of the last image on the card used in Solms. Simply reset the numbering. There is procedure for it.

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/98104-file-numbering.html#post1031399

Edited December 11, 2013 by jaapv

[jaques]

Ok thanks Jaap. This never happened on the earlier M digital did it? And am I correct to assume that you can no longer tell how many shots the camera has actually fired?

 

I have uploaded the image to my own dropbox John- I couldn't manage to load it direct to yours... I will just PM you the link now- thanks in advance for your offer to have a look at it. If any other meta data sleuths are interested to delve into it let me know and I can send the link to you.

Edited December 11, 2013 by jaques

[jaapv]

Yes -it did, there are plenty of puzzled threads in the forum.

[hoppyman]

Jaques, it depends on the camera settings for file numbering. You can also reset or edit the file numbers too.

With a newly formatted card the camera would normally then continue the sequence from its (internally stored) memory of the last frame shot. As some one mentioned that may be from whatever the technician used when testing your camera. If you insert a card which has existing files on it, then the camera will normally continue that sequence instead.

 

There are other possible variations based on whether you have more than one folder on the card too.

[barjohn]

I have looked at the above JPG and the file you sent me via PM.

 

Here is the EXIF data for the JPG above:

==== "/Users/johngriffith/Downloads/self timer-1009958.jpg" ====

---- ExifTool ----

ExifTool Version Number : 9.39

---- System ----

File Name : self timer-1009958.jpg

Directory : /Users/johngriffith/Downloads

File Size : 87 kB

File Modification Date/Time : 2013:12:14 11:37:38-08:00

File Access Date/Time : 2013:12:14 11:38:25-08:00

File Inode Change Date/Time : 2013:12:14 11:37:38-08:00

File Permissions : rw-r--r--

---- File ----

File Type : JPEG

MIME Type : image/jpeg

Exif Byte Order : Little-endian (Intel, II)

Current IPTC Digest : 370a6a2aae30783523f548d96cd3cf1e

Image Width : 600

Image Height : 401

Encoding Process : Baseline DCT, Huffman coding

Bits Per Sample : 8

Color Components : 3

Y Cb Cr Sub Sampling : YCbCr4:4:4 (1 1)

---- IFD0 ----

Make : Leica Camera AG

Camera Model Name : LEICA M (Typ 240)

X Resolution : 300

Y Resolution : 300

Resolution Unit : inches

Software : Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 5.0 (Macintosh)

Modify Date : 2013:12:11 13:50:08

---- ExifIFD ----

Exposure Time : 1/2000

F Number : 2.4

Exposure Program : Manual

ISO : 200

Exif Version : 0230

Date/Time Original : 2013:12:11 07:58:58

Create Date : 2013:12:11 07:58:58

Shutter Speed Value : 1/2000

Aperture Value : 2.4

Exposure Compensation : 0

Max Aperture Value : 1.0

Metering Mode : Center-weighted average

Light Source : Unknown

Flash : No Flash

Focal Length : 50.0 mm

Color Space : sRGB

Focal Plane X Resolution : 1653.333344

Focal Plane Y Resolution : 1653.333344

Focal Plane Resolution Unit : cm

File Source : Digital Camera

Scene Type : Directly photographed

Custom Rendered : Normal

Exposure Mode : Manual

White Balance : Auto

Digital Zoom Ratio : 0

Scene Capture Type : Standard

Contrast : Normal

Saturation : Normal

Sharpness : Normal

Image Unique ID : 00000000000000000000000000104567

Serial Number : 4714557

Lens Model : Noctilux-M 1:1/50

---- GPS ----

GPS Version ID : 2.2.0.0

GPS Altitude Ref : Above Sea Level

GPS Altitude : 0 m

GPS Status : Measurement Void

GPS Dilution Of Precision : 0

GPS Speed : 0

GPS Track : 0

---- Photoshop ----

X Resolution : 300

Displayed Units X : inches

Y Resolution : 300

Displayed Units Y : inches

IPTC Digest : 370a6a2aae30783523f548d96cd3cf1e

---- IPTC ----

Coded Character Set : UTF8

Application Record Version : 4

Date Created : 2013:12:11

Time Created : 07:58:58

Digital Creation Date : 2013:12:11

Digital Creation Time : 07:58:58

---- ICC-header ----

Profile CMM Type : Lino

Profile Version : 2.1.0

Profile Class : Display Device Profile

Color Space Data : RGB

Profile Connection Space : XYZ

Profile Date Time : 1998:02:09 06:49:00

Profile File Signature : acsp

Primary Platform : Microsoft Corporation

CMM Flags : Not Embedded, Independent

Device Manufacturer : IEC

Device Model : sRGB

Device Attributes : Reflective, Glossy, Positive, Color

Rendering Intent : Perceptual

Connection Space Illuminant : 0.9642 1 0.82491

Profile Creator : HP

Profile ID : 0

---- ICC_Profile ----

Profile Copyright : Copyright © 1998 Hewlett-Packard Company

Profile Description : sRGB IEC61966-2.1

Media White Point : 0.95045 1 1.08905

Media Black Point : 0 0 0

Red Matrix Column : 0.43607 0.22249 0.01392

Green Matrix Column : 0.38515 0.71687 0.09708

Blue Matrix Column : 0.14307 0.06061 0.7141

Device Mfg Desc : IEC Welcome to the IEC - International Electrotechnical Commission

Device Model Desc : IEC 61966-2.1 Default RGB colour space - sRGB

Viewing Cond Desc : Reference Viewing Condition in IEC61966-2.1

Luminance : 76.03647 80 87.12462

Technology : Cathode Ray Tube Display

Red Tone Reproduction Curve : (Binary data 2060 bytes, use -b option to extract)

Green Tone Reproduction Curve : (Binary data 2060 bytes, use -b option to extract)

Blue Tone Reproduction Curve : (Binary data 2060 bytes, use -b option to extract)

---- ICC-view ----

Viewing Cond Illuminant : 19.6445 20.3718 16.8089

Viewing Cond Surround : 3.92889 4.07439 3.36179

Viewing Cond Illuminant Type : D50

---- ICC-meas ----

Measurement Observer : CIE 1931

Measurement Backing : 0 0 0

Measurement Geometry : Unknown (0)

Measurement Flare : 0.999%

Measurement Illuminant : D65

---- XMP-x ----

XMP Toolkit : Adobe XMP Core 5.5-c002 1.148022, 2012/07/15-18:06:45

---- XMP-xmp ----

Creator Tool : Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 5.0 (Macintosh)

Modify Date : 2013:12:11 13:50:08+10:30

Create Date : 2013:12:11 07:58:58

Metadata Date : 2013:12:11 13:50:08+10:30

---- XMP-aux ----

Serial Number : 4714557

Lens : Noctilux-M 1:1/50

---- XMP-photoshop ----

Date Created : 2013:12:11 07:58:58

---- XMP-xmpMM ----

Document ID : xmp.did:cbccd1bb-f04a-40ea-9788-9853dc9623c3

Original Document ID : 30303030303030303030313034353637

Instance ID : xmp.iid:cbccd1bb-f04a-40ea-9788-9853dc9623c3

History Action : derived, saved, derived, saved, converted, derived, saved

History Parameters : saved to new location, converted from image/dng to image/jpeg, saved to new location, from image/jpeg to image/dng, converted from image/dng to image/jpeg, saved to new location

History Instance ID : xmp.iid:a96ed8d3-36a9-42a7-aed5-fc5c08543831, xmp.iid:0ede9258-5eef-4957-b3b9-23e9f65df5c3, xmp.iid:cbccd1bb-f04a-40ea-9788-9853dc9623c3

History When : 2013:12:11 13:48:58+10:30, 2013:12:11 13:50:08+10:30, 2013:12:11 13:50:08+10:30

History Software Agent : Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 5.0 (Macintosh), Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 5.0 (Macintosh), Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 5.0 (Macintosh)

History Changed : /, /, /

Derived From Instance ID : xmp.iid:0ede9258-5eef-4957-b3b9-23e9f65df5c3

Derived From Document ID : xmp.did:0ede9258-5eef-4957-b3b9-23e9f65df5c3

Derived From Original Document ID: 30303030303030303030313034353637

---- XMP-dc ----

Format : image/jpeg

---- Adobe ----

DCT Encode Version : 100

APP14 Flags 0 : [14]

APP14 Flags 1 : (none)

Color Transform : YCbCr

---- Composite ----

Aperture : 2.4

Date/Time Created : 2013:12:11 07:58:58

Digital Creation Date/Time : 2013:12:11 07:58:58

GPS Altitude : 0 m Above Sea Level

Image Size : 600x401

Scale Factor To 35 mm Equivalent: 9.9

Shutter Speed : 1/2000

Circle Of Confusion : 0.003 mm

Field Of View : 4.2 deg

Focal Length : 50.0 mm (35 mm equivalent: 495.6 mm)

Hyperfocal Distance : 343.65 m

Light Value : 12.5

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[barjohn]

However, the DNG you sent me must be a mistake as it is an M9 file and here is the EXIF for it:

 

==== "/Users/johngriffith/Downloads/L1009958.dng" ====

---- ExifTool ----

ExifTool Version Number : 9.39

---- System ----

File Name : L1009958.dng

Directory : /Users/johngriffith/Downloads

File Size : 7.2 MB

File Modification Date/Time : 2013:12:14 11:24:05-08:00

File Access Date/Time : 2013:12:14 11:44:41-08:00

File Inode Change Date/Time : 2013:12:14 11:26:26-08:00

File Permissions : rw-r--r--

---- File ----

File Type : DNG

MIME Type : image/x-adobe-dng

Exif Byte Order : Little-endian (Intel, II)

---- IFD0 ----

Subfile Type : Reduced-resolution image

Image Width : 256

Image Height : 170

Bits Per Sample : 8 8 8

Compression : Uncompressed

Photometric Interpretation : RGB

Make : Leica Camera AG

Camera Model Name : M9 Digital Camera

Strip Offsets : 14512

Orientation : Horizontal (normal)

Samples Per Pixel : 3

Rows Per Strip : 170

Strip Byte Counts : 130560

Planar Configuration : Chunky

Software : Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 3.4.1

Modify Date : 2012:11:09 01:25:50

Self Timer Mode : 0

DNG Version : 1.3.0.0

DNG Backward Version : 1.1.0.0

Unique Camera Model : M9 Digital Camera

Color Matrix 1 : 0.7181 -0.1706 -0.0055 -0.3557 1.1409 0.245 -0.0621 0.2072 0.7533

Color Matrix 2 : 0.6627 -0.1079 -0.0498 -0.3949 1.2122 0.2043 -0.1492 0.3123 0.6574

Camera Calibration 1 : 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1

Camera Calibration 2 : 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1

Analog Balance : 1 1 1

As Shot Neutral : 0.496094 1 0.74466

Baseline Exposure : -0.5

Baseline Noise : 1

Baseline Sharpness : 1

Linear Response Limit : 1

Camera Serial Number : 4207314

Shadow Scale : 1

Maker Note Safety : Safe

Calibration Illuminant 1 : Standard Light A

Calibration Illuminant 2 : D65

Raw Data Unique ID : E011E7E308283D78ED8A56E4C8964899

Camera Calibration Sig : com.adobe

Profile Calibration Sig : com.adobe

Profile Name : Embedded

Profile Embed Policy : Allow Copying

Preview Application Name : Adobe Photoshop Lightroom

Preview Application Version : 3.4.1

Preview Settings Digest : 137bbe7c8d3e67d72112580befe1f916

Preview Color Space : 2

Preview Date Time : 2012:11:09 01:25:50+10:30

Raw Image Digest : b358a48a3dba0b513e0e1c35a0f3d979

Noise Profile : 3.58098725871672e-05 4.9286629084442e-07

---- SubIFD ----

Subfile Type : Full-resolution Image

Image Width : 5216

Image Height : 3472

Bits Per Sample : 8

Compression : JPEG

Photometric Interpretation : Color Filter Array

Samples Per Pixel : 1

Planar Configuration : Chunky

Tile Width : 352

Tile Length : 352

Tile Offsets : (Binary data 1182 bytes, use -b option to extract)

Tile Byte Counts : (Binary data 899 bytes, use -b option to extract)

CFA Repeat Pattern Dim : 2 2

CFA Pattern 2 : 0 1 1 2

CFA Plane Color : Red,Green,Blue

CFA Layout : Rectangular

Linearization Table : (Binary data 1244 bytes, use -b option to extract)

Black Level Repeat Dim : 1 1

Black Level : 54

White Level : 16383

Default Scale : 1 1

Default Crop Origin : 2 2

Default Crop Size : 5212 3468

Bayer Green Split : 500

Anti Alias Strength : 1

Best Quality Scale : 1

Active Area : 0 0 3472 5216

---- SubIFD1 ----

Subfile Type : Reduced-resolution image

Image Width : 1024

Image Height : 681

Bits Per Sample : 8 8 8

Compression : JPEG

Photometric Interpretation : YCbCr

Preview Image Start : 145072

Samples Per Pixel : 3

Rows Per Strip : 681

Preview Image Length : 53148

Planar Configuration : Chunky

Y Cb Cr Coefficients : 0.299 0.587 0.114

Y Cb Cr Sub Sampling : YCbCr4:2:0 (2 2)

Y Cb Cr Positioning : Co-sited

Reference Black White : 0 255 128 255 128 255

Preview Application Name : Adobe Photoshop Lightroom

Preview Application Version : 3.4.1

Preview Settings Digest : 137bbe7c8d3e67d72112580befe1f916

Preview Color Space : 2

Preview Date Time : 2012:11:09 01:25:50+10:30

---- XMP-x ----

XMP Toolkit : Adobe XMP Core 5.2-c004 1.136881, 2010/06/10-18:11:35

---- XMP-xmp ----

Creator Tool : Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 3.4.1

Modify Date : 2012:11:09 01:25:50+10:30

Create Date : 2012:11:07 09:22:05

Metadata Date : 2012:11:09 01:25:50+10:30

---- XMP-aux ----

Serial Number : 4207314

Lens : Leica Noctilux-M 50mm f/1

Lens ID : 31

---- XMP-photoshop ----

Date Created : 2012:11:07 09:22:05

---- XMP-crs ----

Has Crop : False

---- ExifIFD ----

Exposure Time : 1/180

F Number : 1.0

Exposure Program : Manual

ISO : 200

Exif Version : 0230

Date/Time Original : 2012:11:07 09:22:05

Create Date : 2012:11:07 09:22:05

Shutter Speed Value : 1/180

Aperture Value : 1.0

Exposure Compensation : -0.332

Max Aperture Value : 1.0

Metering Mode : Center-weighted average

Light Source : Flash

Flash : No Flash

Focal Length : 50.0 mm

Focal Plane X Resolution : 3700

Focal Plane Y Resolution : 3689

Focal Plane Resolution Unit : inches

File Source : Digital Camera

Scene Type : Directly photographed

Exposure Mode : Manual

White Balance : Manual

Digital Zoom Ratio : 0

Focal Length In 35mm Format : 50 mm

Scene Capture Type : Standard

Image Unique ID : 000000000000000000000000000012FA

Serial Number : 4207314

Lens Model : Leica Noctilux-M 50mm f/1

---- Leica ----

Leica Subdir 0x3001 : 0

Contrast : Normal

Sharpening : Normal

Leica Subdir 0x300c : 0

Saturation : Normal

Leica Subdir 0x300e : 1

Leica Subdir 0x300f : 1

Leica Subdir 0x3032 : 36241 16384 19579

White Balance : Flash

JPEG Quality : Fine

Leica Subdir 0x3035 : 0

WB RGB Levels : 0.4960939866 1 0.7446595764

Leica Subdir 0x3037 : 4294967295

User Profile :

Leica Subdir 0x3039 : 0

JPEG Size : 5216x3472

Serial Number : 4207314

Leica Subdir 0x3104 : 03739206000000

Leica Subdir 0x3105 : 03739206000000

Leica Subdir 0x3107 : 4H205807227800

Firmware Version : 1.162

Leica Subdir 0x310b :

Leica Subdir 0x310c : 02

Leica Subdir 0x310d : 02

Leica Subdir 0x310e : 11

Leica Subdir 0x310f : 0

Base ISO : 160

Sensor Width : 5270

Sensor Height : 3516

Sensor Bit Depth : 14

Camera Temperature : 0 C

Leica Subdir 0x3403 : 0.03726

Lens Type : Noctilux-M 50mm f/1

Approximate F Number : 0.0

Measured LV : -1.65

External Sensor Brightness Value: 0.00

Leica Subdir 0x3409 : 1

Leica Subdir 0x340a : 61 62

Leica Subdir 0x340b : 0

Leica Subdir 0x340c : 0

Leica Subdir 0x340d : 0

Lens Type : Noctilux-M 50mm f/1

Leica Subdir 0x3903 : ..n.F.¬.Ô.g...¤.Ø.{.¡.{.-.Y.µ.®a.ÝÁ}.ÄßÑ.#.ù.ñ.J.¾[...]

Leica Subdir 0x3904 : 1

---- Composite ----

Aperture : 1.0

Blue Balance : 0.74466

CFA Pattern : [Red,Green][Green,Blue]

Image Size : 5216x3472

Lens ID : Leica Noctilux-M 50mm f/1

Preview Image : (Binary data 53148 bytes, use -b option to extract)

Red Balance : 0.496094

Scale Factor To 35 mm Equivalent: 1.0

Shutter Speed : 1/180

Circle Of Confusion : 0.030 mm

Field Of View : 39.6 deg

Focal Length : 50.0 mm (35 mm equivalent: 50.0 mm)

Hyperfocal Distance : 83.21 m

Light Value : 6.5

[barjohn]

You should notice in the DNG file, the self timer mode is captured. In the above it was = 0. Please send me three DNG files. One with self timer shot set to 2 sec, one with self timer off and set to single shot and one with switch sent to Continuous so we can see the respective field values. They should all be from M240.

Edited December 14, 2013 by barjohn