Paolo.Battista Posted October 23, 2013 Share #41 Posted October 23, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Compact Panaleicas, APS X series, FF M series, MF S series.... one more format would be too much... branding/selling lenses also for m43 is another biz, (the same way that, for instance, they make and sell cine lenses) From a commercial point of view, who's in the middle of two emerging markets normally does not survive. APS cameras require big (relatively) lenses, while m4/3 can have small and not too expensive lenses, but with very good IQ. On the other hand, ff sensors are what Nikon (and probably Sony and Canon) are looking to in order to separate themselves from the rest of the cloud. Frankly I think that APS sensors will have a very hard time in the next future, specially as system-based cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 23, 2013 Posted October 23, 2013 Hi Paolo.Battista, Take a look here Red dot version of Panasonic GX7 ?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
luigi bertolotti Posted October 23, 2013 Share #42 Posted October 23, 2013 From a commercial point of view, who's in the middle of two emerging markets normally does not survive. APS cameras require big (relatively) lenses, while m4/3 can have small and not too expensive lenses, but with very good IQ. On the other hand, ff sensors are what Nikon (and probably Sony and Canon) are looking to in order to separate themselves from the rest of the cloud. Frankly I think that APS sensors will have a very hard time in the next future, specially as system-based cameras. It's a no-nonsense hipotesis, I admit : Sony's move with A/7 is significant imho (much more that its "emotional" impact on Leica M community ) : it can be hard to be "smaller/lighter" with APS... I would be curios to see the "global numbers and trend" of m43 cameras vs. same figure for APS ... I admit also that Leica's statement of its no interest towards m43 could be reversed without any scandal... the "written on rock" strategies of Leica are, hopingfully, on other sides. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo.Battista Posted October 24, 2013 Share #43 Posted October 24, 2013 I would be curios to see the "global numbers and trend" of m43 cameras vs. same figure for APS ... Up to now APS-C is surely leading, when I wrote "next future" I was not referring to tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. I was only indicating a possible trend. The market of digital photo cameras is slowing down so many analysts are starting to state that in the future there will be room for only two major players in the SLR market. That probably means that these two players will have mostly FF-based line up of cameras, with possibily APS-C very basic models. On the other hand, the m4/3 system is the only open standard on the market (ok, at a certain degree even the M system could be thought as open, but Zeiss and Cosina are releasing only lenses and no bodies unlike in the past, plus Ricoh is discontinuing the GXR M module it seems). This should appeal at many producers, since the return of investment could be much lower than creating a new proprietary APS-C based system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted October 24, 2013 Share #44 Posted October 24, 2013 Nikon will concentrate in 24x36mm format: Nikon Germany to concentrate on full frame products | Nikon Rumors A new Nikon FM2 digital camera is coming... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted October 24, 2013 Share #45 Posted October 24, 2013 Any news yet? Where's this new PanaLeica then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptZoom Posted October 24, 2013 Share #46 Posted October 24, 2013 Any news yet? Where's this new PanaLeica then? Brewing into one fantastic camera in our imaginations:) It will be interesting if this Paneica isn't a simple rebadge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iforum Posted October 24, 2013 Share #47 Posted October 24, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) IT"S HERE Leica unveils D-Lux 6 Silver Edition: Digital Photography Review :D:D:D http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/leica-announces-the-silver-edition-d-lux-6/ chuckle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted October 24, 2013 Share #48 Posted October 24, 2013 Yep, that'll be it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iforum Posted October 24, 2013 Share #49 Posted October 24, 2013 What !! not disappointed? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted October 24, 2013 Share #50 Posted October 24, 2013 Uhm... there are major and MINOR announcements... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iforum Posted October 24, 2013 Share #51 Posted October 24, 2013 Uhm... there are major and MINOR announcements... and then the xmas specials:p Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iforum Posted October 24, 2013 Share #52 Posted October 24, 2013 .........without the 20% discount Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo.Battista Posted October 24, 2013 Share #53 Posted October 24, 2013 What !! not disappointed? Mi scappa una espressioncina in lumbard... Ooops, sorry, the Goggle translator was off line :-P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 12, 2013 Share #54 Posted November 12, 2013 A Leica version of the Panasonic GM1 could be interesting. Even more so if followed by additional Leica m4/3 lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo.Battista Posted November 13, 2013 Share #55 Posted November 13, 2013 With these lenses coming, it would be very nice to have a true Leica developed m4/3 camera with custom sensor and color readout at 14 bit per channel/pixel. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/209998-red-dot-version-of-panasonic-gx7/?do=findComment&comment=2464781'>More sharing options...
stevelap Posted November 15, 2013 Share #56 Posted November 15, 2013 See this, quoting Leica CEO Alfred Schopf http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-forum/308841-ceo-alfred-schopf-future-products.html 'When asked will there ever be a Leica compact system camera:' "We will have one, definitely. And it will, of course, be quite different to M system. We want to have autofocus with such a system and we may well have an APSC size sensor rather than a bigger one......." 'He stresses that Leica won't be building on Panasonic's Micro Four Thirds format.' (my italics) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted November 15, 2013 Share #57 Posted November 15, 2013 See this, quoting Leica CEO Alfred Schopf http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-forum/308841-ceo-alfred-schopf-future-products.html 'When asked will there ever be a Leica compact system camera:' "We will have one, definitely. And it will, of course, be quite different to M system. We want to have autofocus with such a system and we may well have an APSC size sensor rather than a bigger one......." 'He stresses that Leica won't be building on Panasonic's Micro Four Thirds format.' (my italics) Any new system based on APS-C or M4/3 is a mistake at this moment. Really serious mistake. In this context a rebranding of Panasonic products is more reasonable because you reduce risks (but it is nasty and probably a disaster). Sony new A7 and A7r have changed the market. You cannot sell an APS-C camera for $1500 anymore. The format size is the strongest sales argument. Olympus is seriously worried because that is in the price frame of the new OM-D. Fujifilm is worried too (they are planning to release a full frame camera next year!). They both will face serious trouble next year. We will see cheaper and smaller reflex cameras with FF sensors from Canon and Nikon in the near future. Where is the reasonable price range for an APS-C system by Leica? $1000? FF cameras will be there... next year (new Sony models, E mount). We are in 2014 (almost), not in 2008 !!!! Zeiss will release manual focus lenses for the new Sony system late in 2014, and the ZM line of lenses seems to be damned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 15, 2013 Share #58 Posted November 15, 2013 Hi Ruben. Not everybody will want full frame for simple reasons of cost and size IMHO. The new Sonys are indeed smaller in current standards but they are still slightly bulkier than some FF SLRs (e.g. Olympus OM-1) and their lenses will always be bigger than 4/3's at the same apertures. The Zeiss 55 is taller than a M 90 already and if you put a mere R 50/2 on an adapter it will be as tall as a 135 lens on the Sonys. Assuming that small sensor cameras will be replaced by smartphones soon or late, and that APS-C camera can be too big with fast lenses anyway (hence the shaky compromise of the Leica Vario), there is some room left for 4/3 cams, in general, and for 4/3 or m4/3 PanaLeicas in particular IMHO. Leica said the contrary? They did change their mind in other matters already. Only fools never do that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted November 15, 2013 Share #59 Posted November 15, 2013 Hi Ruben. Not everybody will want full frame for simple reasons of cost and size IMHO. The new Sonys are indeed smaller in current standards but they are still slightly bulkier than some FF SLRs (e.g. Olympus OM-1) and their lenses will always be bigger than 4/3's at the same apertures. The Zeiss 55 is taller than a M 90 already and if you put a mere R 50/2 on an adapter it will be as tall as a 135 lens on the Sonys. Assuming that small sensor cameras will be replaced by smartphones soon or late, and that APS-C camera can be too big with fast lenses anyway (hence the shaky compromise of the Leica Vario), there is some room left for 4/3 cams, in general, and for 4/3 or m4/3 PanaLeicas in particular IMHO. Leica said the contrary? They did change their mind in other matters already. Only fools never do that. There is some room for 4/3 and APS-C cameras, of course, but not room for high price / high margins products. That is the point. A new APS-C system for cameras in the 1500-2000 euros range made sense in 2008, maybe when Fujifilm set the specifications of their X system, but now is crazy. Not even Leica can sell that, say, a 2000 euros camera with APS-C standard sensor. You have a FF Sony camera for $1500, with a top class sensor. The size is a variable, a sales argument... to some extent. The weight of that variable is different depending of the public. It is important for the Panasonic GM1, it is not for the Panasonic GH3. The new Sonys are not bigger than Fujifilm's X-Pro 1 or Olympus OM-D. People with 2000 euros in the pocket (will) want FF. APS-C or M4/3 means "suicide" at this moment. Size comparison tool: http://camerasize.com/compare/#488,389 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 15, 2013 Share #60 Posted November 15, 2013 As long as you don't include lenses in your comparos i would agree of course but as i said above big lenses are necessarily a problem for people giving importance to size... like Sony's clients. Only way to avoid the problem is to put M lenses and focus them manually. Not sure that a lot of Sony users would be happy with that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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