sean_reid Posted April 12, 2007 Share #41 Posted April 12, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) It might also be possible that a static shock could damage a transistor. I'm not an engineer but its possible that those transistors were fine when the cameras left the factory. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 12, 2007 Posted April 12, 2007 Hi sean_reid, Take a look here Another M8 going down. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
fotografr Posted April 12, 2007 Share #42 Posted April 12, 2007 It might also be possible that a static shock could damage a transistor. I'm not an engineer but its possible that those transistors were fine when the cameras left the factory. Cheers, Sean If the transistors are sensitive enough to be affected by the kind of mild static electricity that normally comes from clothing and dry indoor conditions in winter, then I would have to consider them faulty on that basis alone. I've used no less than 10 different digital cameras over the last 9 years in the same environment that my M8s failed in and none of the others have experienced any problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted April 12, 2007 Share #43 Posted April 12, 2007 Cindy, The problem you describe is precisely what happened with my cameras. The symptoms are identical. When I was informed by Jesko von Oeynhausen that the cause was a faulty transistor, he did not imply, as some here have suggested, that mine was the only camera affected by this problem. He stated, in fact, that they were aware of several bad transistors. I'll be interested to hear if leaving your M8 for several days to drain down the internal battery has any effect (I hope it does), but I am more inclined to think it will have to go back to Solms. I don't think there is any way for Leica to know just how many of the bad transistors got put into cameras that have been sold. My first three M8 bodies came in January, February and March and each one failed in the same way. Some might call that bad luck, but to me it indicates a significant number of bad transistors out there. My worst fear is that an entire batch was faulty and that it is only a matter of time and the right circumstances before all of them fail. Best Regards, Brent, I do hope you are wrong but I fear......Mine is starting to give signs of behaving idiosyncratically - one recoverable lock-up and yesterday it would not write to any card and claimed both cards I tried were full but could not display any images. I am not convinced by the static argument. I have been taking computers apart and putting some of them back together again since the valve (tube) model IBM 7950 days. I have yet to have a problem with a static damaged component in nearly 45 years. You would have thought in that time, mini-lightning would have struck. A bad batch of transistors seems more likely, possibly faulty bonding of the wires to the substrate, which then fail after a variable length of time. I replaced the drivers in my Quad 606 power amp about 2 years ago with uprated ones. One failed after about three weeks. They were replaced by the supplier with the warning that he was having a lot of trouble with the current batch and sure enough, after about 4 days one went again. The supplier who was sending the whole thing out as an upgrade kit, sent the whole batch back to the manufacturer, who admitted they were faulty but advised a different, higher rated driver just to be sure, which were supplied free - no problems since. The other area where problems might lie is the lead free soldering. If they are using tin/bismuth, that has poor mechanical properties and is also notorious for 'dry solder joints'. If they are using the much superior tin/silver, the melting point is appreciably higher and can cause thermal damage to semi-conductor components, which takes time to materialise. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Gregory Posted April 13, 2007 Share #44 Posted April 13, 2007 Well my hiccup was on a body I bought only recently #3109XXX. I'm hoping it was only a firmware hiccup as I reinserted the same battery and it all reset instantly. Just got an editorial style ad job and am thinking of using the M8 on it. Will have other options as back up (like M7 and good ol' film and D200). Crossing my fingers..... Charles, as an aside to M8 problems, I was surprised to run across your name and website tonight while checking the Forum. I have admired your work, especially following your work in the early years with Pearl Jam etc when my son and I were watching those bands. Even have your book as a keepsake. Thank you for your work! Scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandymc Posted April 13, 2007 Share #45 Posted April 13, 2007 The thing is, transistors don't repair themselves, and very seldom fail anything other than totally. If they fail, they're gone forever. While its possible that there is a transistor problem with the M8, it really doesn't explain the "near-death" experiences that many have had. Sandy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted April 13, 2007 Share #46 Posted April 13, 2007 The thing is, transistors don't repair themselves, and very seldom fail anything other than totally. If they fail, they're gone forever. While its possible that there is a transistor problem with the M8, it really doesn't explain the "near-death" experiences that many have had. Sandy Sandy, True for single transistors but not for chips. Many chips have internal test and recovery routines to bypass a single internal component failure. If you think of the current computer processors, they have many millions of individual components. If a single component failure was to kill the whole chip, the life of these expensive chips would be very short. In reality, they are amazingly reliable. This sometimes can explain why original manufacturer chips from say Intel and Analog Devices, are more reliable than their reverse engineered cousins from backwoods China. Multiple path failures in a chip can degrade its performance before it finally dies. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aluisell Posted April 13, 2007 Share #47 Posted April 13, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) i have read all your feedback of this unlucky experience. I hope and honestly i can't think that no stress test has been done on the electronic components inside the camera and that few transistor or chips can't survive to a static electricity. if my worst thinks are true Leica should probably take back a huge numer of camera... Can you think what will mean for them and all of us? Andrea Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindy Flood Posted April 13, 2007 Author Share #48 Posted April 13, 2007 I just wanted to note that it is now Friday morning, and my M8 has not come back. I have had the battery out for 4 full days. If I put the battery in for a minute, I can take a shot and see it on the screen for a quick review. I can not access any menus and I can not play back. Also, my failure occured in Charleston, South Carolina. I don't think static is as likely there, but of course I can't be certain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aluisell Posted April 13, 2007 Share #49 Posted April 13, 2007 Dear Cindy, can i sugget you try to re-upgrade the firmware again? sometimes happen with the pc that you need to upgrade the firmware twice... you know it's electronics stuff. regards Andrea Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Mondello Posted April 13, 2007 Share #50 Posted April 13, 2007 My M8 is one of the original 1500. It was purchased Nov. 6, 2007. Could be the residual effects of TIME TRAVEL!!! couldn't resist, sorry! Sorry to hear about your camera. Hope Leica it gets worked out for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tummydoc Posted April 13, 2007 Share #51 Posted April 13, 2007 The thing is, transistors don't repair themselves, and very seldom fail anything other than totally. If they fail, they're gone forever. While its possible that there is a transistor problem with the M8, it really doesn't explain the "near-death" experiences that many have had. Sandy That's what I've been thinking and saying. It could be some other malfunction that after some time, fries the transistor whereupon the camera is rendered completely inoperable. Sort of like a disease producing a host of non-lethal symptoms but eventually leads to an organ failure that is lethal. Changing the transistor would be like doing an organ transplant without finding and curing whatever led to the failure of the original: sooner or later the new transistor will fail too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted April 13, 2007 Share #52 Posted April 13, 2007 Cindy--I'm really sorry to hear you are going through this. If I were you I'd follow Guy's suggestions. He's done a lot of work with the people in Solms and knows what he's talking about. Hope you get it back quickly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scho Posted April 13, 2007 Share #53 Posted April 13, 2007 I just wanted to note that it is now Friday morning, and my M8 has not come back. I have had the battery out for 4 full days. If I put the battery in for a minute, I can take a shot and see it on the screen for a quick review. I can not access any menus and I can not play back. Also, my failure occured in Charleston, South Carolina. I don't think static is as likely there, but of course I can't be certain. Sorry about your M8 problems Cindy and hope that Leica gets you up and running again soon. I just returned from a trip to Charleston and you are right about there not being any static problems down there. Biggest problem I had was keeping the pine pollen out of my camera when changing lenses. Charleston is a beautiful old town and we really enjoyed our visit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhild Posted April 13, 2007 Share #54 Posted April 13, 2007 take some rolls of good old film and a M3 and you´ll never have this problems again, it´s so easy... Jo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colorflow Posted April 13, 2007 Share #55 Posted April 13, 2007 I just wanted to note that it is now Friday morning, and my M8 has not come back. I have had the battery out for 4 full days. If I put the battery in for a minute, I can take a shot and see it on the screen for a quick review. I can not access any menus and I can not play back. Also, my failure occured in Charleston, South Carolina. I don't think static is as likely there, but of course I can't be certain. Sorry to hear that Cindy. There goes our theory that the camera would recover after draining the internal battery. Does the camera stay "operational" even though there is no button or LCD function? I am getting mine back from Solms today. Mine is the one that revived during shipment to Solms and coming back without any repair. Wonder what will happen. Good luck, Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ioriw Posted May 23, 2007 Share #56 Posted May 23, 2007 OK so where are we on the sudden death syndrome? For the second or third time, yesterday my m8 failed to power-up out of the bag. I'd put a freshly charged battery in a few days previously and expected to be ready to go with plenty of shots. As with the last time a few months ago, re-inserting the battery or waiting a few hours did nothing to help. I lost my shot that day, recharged the battery that had been fully charged, put it back in and all is normal again. Yes, I am sure the battery had been fully charged, I checked the status lights as always and a normal charge cycle of a few hours had completed properly, no abnormalities. Immediately after that charge, I'd inserted the battery and powered on OK, seeing the fully-charged status, all was fine, I powered off and put it back in the luigi case, then in my bag.. two days later it was dead.. (Auto-power-off was set to 2mins, no I hadn't left it on by accident). M8 first batch, one solms trip, happened with all firmware versions so far. I'd like a littttle more reliability :/ iori Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted May 23, 2007 Share #57 Posted May 23, 2007 If you haven't let the camera/battery run down completely and then recharge the battery, for every battery you own, the camera can and will have a false battery level reading. IE it will show full charge, 3 bars (Full battery), when in fact the battery could be nearly dead. Also if you don't use the camera a lot, IE let it sit for days, the removeable battery will drop in charge to keep the internal battery fully charged. OK so where are we on the sudden death syndrome? For the second or third time, yesterday my m8 failed to power-up out of the bag. I'd put a freshly charged battery in a few days previously and expected to be ready to go with plenty of shots. As with the last time a few months ago, re-inserting the battery or waiting a few hours did nothing to help. I lost my shot that day, recharged the battery that had been fully charged, put it back in and all is normal again. Yes, I am sure the battery had been fully charged, I checked the status lights as always and a normal charge cycle of a few hours had completed properly, no abnormalities. Immediately after that charge, I'd inserted the battery and powered on OK, seeing the fully-charged status, all was fine, I powered off and put it back in the luigi case, then in my bag.. two days later it was dead.. (Auto-power-off was set to 2mins, no I hadn't left it on by accident). M8 first batch, one solms trip, happened with all firmware versions so far. I'd like a littttle more reliability :/ iori Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted May 23, 2007 Share #58 Posted May 23, 2007 OK so where are we on the sudden death syndrome? For the second or third time, yesterday my m8 failed to power-up out of the bag. I'd put a freshly charged battery in a few days previously and expected to be ready to go with plenty of shots. As with the last time a few months ago, re-inserting the battery or waiting a few hours did nothing to help. I lost my shot that day, recharged the battery that had been fully charged, put it back in and all is normal again. Yes, I am sure the battery had been fully charged, I checked the status lights as always and a normal charge cycle of a few hours had completed properly, no abnormalities. Immediately after that charge, I'd inserted the battery and powered on OK, seeing the fully-charged status, all was fine, I powered off and put it back in the luigi case, then in my bag.. two days later it was dead.. (Auto-power-off was set to 2mins, no I hadn't left it on by accident). M8 first batch, one solms trip, happened with all firmware versions so far. I'd like a littttle more reliability :/ iori Iori, I had exactly this about three weeks ago. I had assumed it was because I had put it in the case in a position which depressed the shutter button accidentally, before it had fully shut down. I was using an Abrahamsson Softie at the time before I lost it, so it was easier than usual to have the shutter depressed. The second time it happened was with the brand new battery I had to buy because I had gone back to England for 2 days without either a spare battery or charger with me. The Abrahamsson Softie had been lost by this time. I reloaded the firmware and have not had a single recurrence since. I would do the same. I am afraid we are looking in the wrong place with an M8 for a trouble free life - have you seen today's horrendous thread about the body die-casting failing at the base plate latch - arrrrrgh..... Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindy Flood Posted May 23, 2007 Author Share #59 Posted May 23, 2007 I would just add that I have 3 batteries. I was letting them completely drain and cycling through them: 1,2,3,1, etc.. My SDS happened at the end of a whole week in Charleston. I had used the battery all Easter Day and taken a couple hundred shots. I would be certain that it was really almost drained when this happened (not a false reading.) jhild said: take some rolls of good old film and a M3 and you´ll never have this problems again,it´s so easy... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted May 23, 2007 Share #60 Posted May 23, 2007 My heart jumped a bit when I saw this thread back at the top of the list. For a moment I thought, "Here we go again." Cindy--Is your M8 still back at Solms? What's the word on it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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