Another M8 going down

[Guest tummydoc]

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But right now they have identified the transitor for the SDS issue but i would imagine more testing is being done on all of that also to be absolutely sure of it.

 

I hope so, because unless I'm mistaken, the evil transistor was found in one camera. Hardly grounds for declaring it unequivocally the cause of the SDS. Surely it's a step forward and the first place they will look from now on. However not only could there be other causes in addition, it could also be true that something or a chain of things is killing the transistor. Needs much more investigation to be sure, and the more DOA cameras they get, the likelier and sooner they'll get to the root cause.

 

let's remember these German engineers are fanatics about getting things perfect

 

I imagine some owners are wondering where was that perfectionism before their M8 left the factory

[cbretteville]

I own two cars from a well reputed manufacturer based in Stuttgart, first letter of the brand's name is 'M' . I can testify to the fact that the myth of German engineering perfection is just that - a myth. I have no doubt that the engineers want as good products as possible, but the bean counters see to it that that isn't what we get as the finished product.

 

- C

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[Guest guy_mancuso]

I hope so, because unless I'm mistaken, the evil transistor was found in one camera. Hardly grounds for declaring it unequivocally the cause of the SDS. Surely it's a step forward and the first place they will look from now on. However not only could there be other causes in addition, it could also be true that something or a chain of things is killing the transistor. Needs much more investigation to be sure, and the more DOA cameras they get, the likelier and sooner they'll get to the root cause.

 

 

 

I imagine some owners are wondering where was that perfectionism before their M8 left the factory

 

 

I agree they need to do a lot more testing and research on this to be sure One camera does not make it yes this is it. i know they have at least 4 on the bench right now,maybe more. So they do have some test camera's to work on that SDS happened too.

 

 

Well a handful of bad transitors can happen in any factory seen it many times but i know these folks can and will get this under control. yes Vinay some may say that to about the perfectionist in them, I can see where that comes from. It's that half empty half full stuff. LOL

[larry]

I own two cars from a well reputed manufacturer based in Stuttgart, first letter of the brand's name is 'M' . I can testify to the fact that the myth of German engineering perfection is just that - a myth. I have no doubt that the engineers want as good products as possible, but the bean counters see to it that that isn't what we get as the finished product.

 

- C

 

Carl,

 

I know that this is splitting hairs, but I'd argue that nine times out of 10, problems arise from quality assurance and not engineering. It's a good bet that most of the M8's problems are related to outside suppliers and production-line quality control. Time will tell.

 

Larry

[eronald]

There has been a known bug where the battery indicator is not correct. What leica recommended was leave the camera on all night and drain the battery down (disable auto off in menu) than recharge the battery and than the camera will reset the indicator.

 

 

I could have done that except none of the rear screen functions was working on mine when I sent it in

A Rebel XT is much cheaper than any Leica lens - I think I'm gonna get one as a carry-around until Leica sends back the M8. Or maybe even a 5D, it's extraordinary what my new profile gets out of that one.

 

 

Edmund

[Cindy Flood]

colorflow asked:

By the way, which firmware was it running? 1.092?

My M8 just came back last week from the hardware and software update. (5 weeks away from me:( !) 1.092.

 

I did have an earlier lockup which I was able to recover from. That happened in January.

 

I have one interesting point: I could not activate the shutter last night...nothing...completely dead. I took the battery out last night. I tried re-inserting the battery today. I still can't access the menus or play. I am now able to take a photo. I can see it on the lcd for initial review. I also get an error message when I take off the bottom (with the M8 turned on.)

 

We are traveling this week, so that will give the M8 a chance to drain. When we reach our destination, I will contact Guy's contact at Leica and send it off again.

 

I will update the thread when it comes back on. (Here's hoping!)

[Guest guy_mancuso]

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Cindy no question you got SDS. same symptoms i have experienced. E-mail me before you send off.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

From all of these SDS crashes and everyone that i notice they all bought there camera's pretty early on like November , December and January. has anyone bought a camera after this time frame and had SDS failure. I am thinking if this was a bad batch of transistors at a certain time in the making of the M8, might be useful info to Leica

[Cindy Flood]

Edmund said:

A Rebel XT is much cheaper than any Leica lens - I think I'm gonna get one as a carry-around until Leica sends back the M8. Or maybe even a 5D, it's extraordinary what my new profile gets out of that one.

I have an XTi with a Leica Summicron-R 35mm lens on it. It is a nice backup, but no real replacement for the M8.

[charlesphoto99]

Well my hiccup was on a body I bought only recently #3109XXX. I'm hoping it was only a firmware hiccup as I reinserted the same battery and it all reset instantly.

 

Just got an editorial style ad job and am thinking of using the M8 on it. Will have other options as back up (like M7 and good ol' film and D200). Crossing my fingers.....

[colorflow]

colorflow asked:

 

I have one interesting point: I could not activate the shutter last night...nothing...completely dead. I took the battery out last night. I tried re-inserting the battery today. I still can't access the menus or play. I am now able to take a photo. I can see it on the lcd for initial review. I also get an error message when I take off the bottom (with the M8 turned on.)

 

 

Exactly what happened with my early Nov M8. This symptom appears to be caused by firmware bug - mangled comunication of battery status to the LCD and buttons functions. Mine eventually degenerated to totally dead. I should have it back in a few days and we'll see how it is!

 

Alan

[jrc]

Again, this is exactly the symptoms of mine, when mine went down (early Nov. version.) I'm sweating bullets because the camera they sent me as a replacement had a *lower* serial number than the one I sent in...I did all the things Cindy did, like waiting overnight and sticking a new battery in and thinking maybe I was coming back because I was getting the bottom plate warning...no luck.

 

But I think every time you stick the battery in, and leave it for a while, you recharge the back-up battery and therefore delay the hard reset. You've got to leave it out for a while.

 

As for German engineering, I also have an M car, and I used to have a B (MW) car, and my impression is that the Germans are great with mechanics, but not so good with electronics. If you look at the latest Consumer Reports reliability ratings, you will find that German cars have some of the lowest ratings -- as far as reliability goes, it seems that in the Daimler-Chrysler marriage, it's Daimler that has the QC problems. How weird is that? But my impression from owning a long line of German cars is that it's the computer functions that cause the problems -- the electronic brakes and transmissions, the computer menus, the programming. My CLS even has, on its initial warning screen on the navigation system, a poorly translated German sentence...

 

"Caution: Using Comand may not divert your attention away from road and traffic."

 

JC

[shipatsea]

hi everyone,

 

would just like to add that my m8, 6 weeks old and running firmware 1.092, also failed on the weekend. after about 15 exposures with a full battery the camera failed to power up when i turned it on, but did power up when i depresed the shutter release. after another 10 exposures the play button failed to work. after a few more exposures the camera was totally dead.

 

draining and recharging the main battery did not fix the problem. i will try draining the internal battery, as recommended, before taking any further action.

 

louis

[colorflow]

Louis, sorry to hear yours failed too. So much for hoping the later ones do not have the problem.

 

Please let us know what happens,

Alan

[colorflow]

hi everyone,

 

would just like to add that my m8, 6 weeks old and running firmware 1.092, also failed on the weekend. after about 15 exposures with a full battery the camera failed to power up when i turned it on, but did power up when i depresed the shutter release. after another 10 exposures the play button failed to work. after a few more exposures the camera was totally dead.

 

draining and recharging the main battery did not fix the problem. i will try draining the internal battery, as recommended, before taking any further action.

 

louis

 

Louis, may be worthwhile to start a separate thread for you M8's sudden death. As is, your case is easily missed.

 

Alan

[Guest tummydoc]

From all of these SDS crashes and everyone that i notice they all bought there camera's pretty early on like November , December and January. has anyone bought a camera after this time frame and had SDS failure. I am thinking if this was a bad batch of transistors at a certain time in the making of the M8, might be useful info to Leica

 

My first one that died was bought in late February, I don't have the paperwork at hand with the serial #. The one the dealer exchanged for the dead one was 3106xxx, that was in early March and also died. They exchanged that one for the one I have now, 3109xxx, that is still working after a month (but that's hardly enough time to declare it problem-free). From what I've gathered from forums and people I know who own them, the SDS has occured within days to weeks of purchase on the newer bodies, but some that were from the original batch are still working perfectly and others have begun to die. So my gut is telling me it isn't a "bad" transistor, it's more probably something else, or a sequence of things "bad" that sooner or later culminate in the destruction of that particular transistor. Saying the problem is a "bad transistor" is like when people say that someone died from a "bad heart" when in fact the heart would've been fine if not for cigarette smoking and obesity.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Trying to see if there is a certain time frame in the manufacturing process that this occured. A bad transitor has been indentified already on one camera, not to say this is without question the problem but it is a clue and like most companies they have inventory control and supply and demand. If this parts came from a certain place at a certain time than that furthers the investigation to lead them in a direction. Even though you may have bought a camera in Feb. does not mean it was made than either and serial numbers are not the tell tale sign because there all over the place. Only Leica can figure out when the camera is actually made by there work orders and data sheets. Frankly if I iknew it was a bad component this is where my direction would go, where did we get them and at what date and when were they installed and than compare that against repair records. I'm sure this is exactly what Leica is doing it only makes sense

[hjsesq]

Just had my M8 die today. Ocurred a couple of days after I updated the firmware. I cannot turn the camera on with the on and off switch. However, if I take the battery out, turn the camera to on, reinsert the battery, the red light goes on, I can read the charge on the battery and number of images and the camera will take photos. However, none of the menus will operate and the only way I can turn the camera off is to take out the battery. I called Leica in NJ and was told to send the camera to them, and if they cannot fix it, they will send it to Germany. Also told it would take 4 to 5 weeks. Told not necessary to include the battery.

 

Any suggestions?

 

Harris

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Send it to New Jersey to Robert Fisk in repair tell him you think you have the sudden death syndrome and needs to get to Germany for repair. mention the SDS and they will know what to do.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[fotografr]

Cindy,

 

The problem you describe is precisely what happened with my cameras. The symptoms are identical. When I was informed by Jesko von Oeynhausen that the cause was a faulty transistor, he did not imply, as some here have suggested, that mine was the only camera affected by this problem. He stated, in fact, that they were aware of several bad transistors.

 

I'll be interested to hear if leaving your M8 for several days to drain down the internal battery has any effect (I hope it does), but I am more inclined to think it will have to go back to Solms.

 

I don't think there is any way for Leica to know just how many of the bad transistors got put into cameras that have been sold. My first three M8 bodies came in January, February and March and each one failed in the same way. Some might call that bad luck, but to me it indicates a significant number of bad transistors out there. My worst fear is that an entire batch was faulty and that it is only a matter of time and the right circumstances before all of them fail.

 

Best Regards,