Digital Leica Lifespan?

[lm_user]

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On the other hand - perhaps an entreneur will offer an upgrade to the entire electronics and sensor system for a small fee?

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[jaapv]

Small fee?.....

[james.liam]

Extrapolations of digital camera lifespans from mechanical ones, is not likely a meaningful calculus. Expecting a first-generation full-frame sensor (made by defunct Kodak no less) to be serviceable for decades is a bit unreasonable. More critically, we see how meaningful a Nikon D1, circa 1999 is in comparison to a D800 of 2012 or more appropriately, the crop sensor D7100.

 

I also doubt people will go through efforts to upgrade the guts of an M9 a decade hence. The technological leaps yet to come will make this exercise, one of futility. One only need look at the stunning outputs of the Ricoh GRD and Sigma DP series Foveons, so whatever comes next from Leica should (hopefully) be an imaging leap of even greater magnitude.

[theno23]

SOME mechanical cameras lasted 75 years (with luck and care) and some electronic ones might last a reasonable time, whether yours will is a total gamble though.

 

However I think it will be possible to repair or replace something like an M9 for a long time, a lot were sold, and I don't expect they'll cost a lot in a few years time.

[lucerne]

SOME mechanical cameras lasted 75 years (with luck and care) and some electronic ones might last a reasonable time, whether yours will is a total gamble though.

 

However I think it will be possible to repair or replace something like an M9 for a long time, a lot were sold, and I don't expect they'll cost a lot in a few years time.

 

+1

 

To add to this.... given the cost of the M9, the first usual consideration of purchasers is "how much will my M9 have cost per year if i keep it for 5 years?" If I'm lucky it will will still be fully functional and parts available as has been predicted before on this forum. However, 5 years is a very long time in respect of technological advances and we have to ask ourselves whether we would want to be using the M9 in 2018. I doubt it, so we have to get used to the reality of very fast depreciation and from a non-professional's standpoint, we can't exactly call this an investment. (Don't discuss this with your other half!). It isn't an investment at all and as well as its falling value, the electronics could fail much earlier. My approach is that I really enjoy taking photographs with this camera and its whole cost is written off right at the time of purchase Alternatively. if we are excited about the prospect and concept of the ever-lasting Leica then buy a film body. Final note: Buy Leica lenses while you can get them and don't compromise with alternatives. Remember: "Buy cheap - Buy twice!.

[jaapv]

Fully agree with one caveat: The M8 still produces images that are quite competitive in quality after eight years, reason so many of them are still in use, even by users who earn their daily bread with them. This is not likely to change soon, so I think technological advance is overrated.

[acordes]

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how long will we get accumulator, batteries for the m8 ?

[jaapv]

As the ME and Monochrom are still in production (and use the same batteries), at least more than ten, more likely fifteen years from now. That means you won't need a refurbishing service until after twenty years.

[flossiezoo]

Shutter on my M8 died after 2.5 years and 20,000 shots. Leica fixed it for about £900 but left a bad taste in the mouth and I went back to film for 3 years with the ol' reliable cloth shutter. Finally gave in with a MM and now keeping the number of actuations down and my fingers crossed

[colonel]

Well my 1983 Tandy trs-80 model 100 is still going fine

 

So is my mini disk player. If you are lucky 100 years and more with restoration

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[marknorton]

Time and date are a bit off though...

 

I use an HP-55 calculator every day which I bought in 1975 (IIRC) and it's perfect. I have a few of them in stock bought for peanuts on eBay to donate spare parts if they are ever required. I don't see Leica Digital M cameras having the same life however.

[IWC Doppel]

I am encouraged by this thread noting the issues with the M8 and hopefully this being a one off for Leica. I expect about 7+ years of use from my M9-P and accept the technological advances. However I will point out the obvious here and the fact that digital sensor technology has been around a while. The marketers would have you believe each model is a substantial step forward, often not the case

 

Well made equipment will last for some considerable time and technology is often driven by efficiency, size and speed not always pure performance. By way of example I love music and a 211 valve power amp with a good turntable has always sounded better in every way to digital. At least now this is accepted as reality.

 

Sticking with digital as a comparator I love film too and lucky enough to have the space for a cinema/film room. This is set up with very old audio equipment and a digital front end, the amplifiers are 30 years old and speakers (excluding sub and centre) 20 years old. When reviewing projectors now 5 years ago I listened to some extremely expensive set ups which don't hold a candle to well engineered old quality kit

 

My point being just how far forward will we be in 5 years time ? I will probably still print a similar size and have improved my photography and skill eeking the best out of low light scenarios, I don't need many more pixels, I think I need another stop in low light but will this in reality be clever digital in chip manipulation, I note the plastic look of certain high ISO images. You don't often get something for nothing and without fast glass there is no more available light, you get my point.

 

Long live the M9 !

[jaapv]

Shutter on my M8 died after 2.5 years and 20,000 shots. Leica fixed it for about £900 but left a bad taste in the mouth and I went back to film for 3 years with the ol' reliable cloth shutter. Finally gave in with a MM and now keeping the number of actuations down and my fingers crossed

Won't help. Shutter failure is unrelated to number of actuations or age. There have been actuation numbers of over 300.000 reported. Of course, the less you use the camera, the less likely failure becomes statistically.

[doolittle]

Hullo Lacapino,

I have no experience with the life span of an M9 but I do have experience of the lifespan of an M8. You may be surprised that it was two years and a few months. Then the rear LCD screen stopped showing anything, and when returned to Leica in Germany ,I was told that they did not have the parts to repair the camera. "So do you want your broken M8 back or do you want to pay 2700 euros for an M9"

I did not want an M9 but as I had a number of Leica lenses I had to give in to the 'gun held to my head'. Leica was quite distant in their dealing and most certainly had no customer interest except to sell another camera.

Yes I now have an M9 with two years guarantee, for what that is worth.

The final salt in the wound was that the battery charger received with the M9 was faulty and after much chasing had to be replaced.

Leica's past reputation was good - my experience is that current Leica management does not care.

David Watts,

CornwallU.K.

 

I have an M8 with a coffee stained lcd, hence tend to follow any threads with mention of M8 lcd screen with interest.

 

From what I have seen so far I understand Leica had the following M8 replacement with M9 offer in place (from another thread on this forum):

 

Within warranty period (2 years): free of charge Within three years: 1500.- EUR (M9) and 1920.- EUR (M9-P) Within four years: 2000.- EUR (M9) and 2420.- EUR (M9-P) Within five years: 2500.- EUR (M9) and 2920.- EUR (M9-P) Within six years: 3000 EUR (M9) and 3420.- EUR (M9-P)[/Quote]

 

I am guessing either your offer from Leica was before this price policy in place, or alternatively that you were not the first owner of the M8?

 

If it is the case that you were the first owner and the M8 was just a few months out of warranty, I would be understanding of your feeling aggrieved.

 

Playing Devils Advocate: That Leica offer anything at all for a camera out of warranty is a bonus. My dealings with other companies where products become defective out of warranty have all been negative - they just don't want to know. It does show a desire on their behalf to encourage customer loyalty, which is admirable in this day and age.

[jaapv]

Hullo Lacapino,

I have no experience with the life span of an M9 but I do have experience of the lifespan of an M8. You may be surprised that it was two years and a few months. Then the rear LCD screen stopped showing anything, and when returned to Leica in Germany ,I was told that they did not have the parts to repair the camera. "So do you want your broken M8 back or do you want to pay 2700 euros for an M9"

I did not want an M9 but as I had a number of Leica lenses I had to give in to the 'gun held to my head'. Leica was quite distant in their dealing and most certainly had no customer interest except to sell another camera.

Yes I now have an M9 with two years guarantee, for what that is worth.

The final salt in the wound was that the battery charger received with the M9 was faulty and after much chasing had to be replaced.

Leica's past reputation was good - my experience is that current Leica management does not care.

David Watts,

CornwallU.K.

I'm a bit lost. The solution here is to sell the M9 you obtained, new-with full guaranty, that should not be a problem, and pocket the price differential to buy yourself a nice pre-owned M8.2 with probably cash to spare.

[colonel]

Playing Devils Advocate: That Leica offer anything at all for a camera out of warranty is a bonus. My dealings with other companies where products become defective out of warranty have all been negative - they just don't want to know. It does show a desire on their behalf to encourage customer loyalty, which is admirable in this day and age.

 

This is actually a far better reason to favour Leica over the more fleeting supposedly low depreciation.

 

The idea is eventually, even when your camera is knackered and many models out of date, Leica will still offer you a discount to upgrade to a more recent model.

[doolittle]

On the OP question:

 

I think it boils down to whether you are looking for a special camera to keep for life or whether you are looking for a tool to do a particular job. If it is the former, you would be better served by an MP (or many other M film cameras of your liking), if it is the latter, think about your goals:

 

Stating the obvious, that your choice is between the Monochrom and the MP means you want to concentrate on black and white photography.

 

Instead of starting from the cameras, work backwards form the result you want to achieve.

I personally would be looking at a black and white print made the traditional way with an enlarger versus a print from the MM.

Now you may have other variables which will sway you one way or other (e.g. Print size you want, technical requirements in making the photograph etc.)

 

You can factor in financial constraints and worst case scenarios to help guide.you, but don't lose sight of your goal.

[james.liam]

On the OP question:

 

Instead of starting from the cameras, work backwards form the result you want to achieve.

I personally would be looking at a black and white print made the traditional way with an enlarger versus a print from the MM.

Now you may have other variables which will sway you one way or other (e.g. Print size you want, technical requirements in making the photograph etc.)

 

You can factor in financial constraints and worst case scenarios to help guide.you, but don't lose sight of your goal.

 

Sound advice.

There is a take-away from the meandering digressions on the M8 above (never used/owned one) in that it and the M9 were the first iterations of digital M's and expectations re: longevity are fraught with unknowns that mechanical film M's don't present. The only unknown about the latter is what films will remain in production 10 years hence.

 

If B&W will indeed be your sole focus and your not heavily invested into M lenses, there may be as compelling options from other makers and at a better price-point. Lloyd Chambers shot a comparison of the MM/35 Summilux FLE and D800E/ZF 35/1,4. The results (using down-sampled files from the Nikon to match the Leica) were surprising and not generally in the MM's favor. In a recent interview with Leica's Dr Kaufman, there are monochrome options to be announced in September and in the Spring of 2014. Might be worth the wait to find out.

 

Interview with Dr. Andreas Kaufman | Leica News & Rumors

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[NJH]

Honestly I think with any digital product the best policy is to buy when the initial hype has receded and the price is fair, keep for some relatively short time but plan to sell on before no one wants to buy the product any more. Its hard to think of any digital camera manufacturer that provides for such a viably long time one could keep the product before selling on than Leica.

[lm_user]

With owning almost any camera, the only thing that is certain is that the manufacturer will claim the new model to be better. The model after that to be better still and so on......

 

Sooner or later your camera will need repair.

 

Sooner or later each owner will decide repair is no longer cost effective.

 

Sooner or later parts will no longer be available.

 

Sooner or later we will purchase another camera and start again.