M 240 randomly under exposed in LV mode (with LCD)

[teeraash]

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Hi there,

I have the M for about a week or two and notice that it produces under exposed images randomly (around 1-2 frames in 20 shots) In LV mode using LCD screen. The shutter sound of these trouble frames is thick with low pitch noise compared to the normal ones. The shutter sometimes also get stuck when switching back to rangefinder mode (rarely happens, 4-5 times in 2 weeks), it couldn't be released and hence not able to take picture. My guess is that it has to do with the shutter cycling, close-open-close when taking pictures in LV mode. Anyone experiences this problem? I know that this could be fixed, may be by changing shutter release module but I am reluctant to send it in as there is a remote possibility that the new firmware may fix it. Also I would love to bring it along side my M-E to my upcoming trips to Italy and Japan in September and October.

 

Greatly appreciate your advise.

[StephenPatterson]

The symptoms you describe Teera are not unique and others are reporting similar occurrences when the camera locks up. Until new firmware is released you might try a different SD card. With my recent M240 I changed from Transcend cards to Sandisk Extreme Pro 64GB (95 mbps) and have not had a single lock up (touch wood). My first M240 with Transcend cards would lock up several times per day.

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[teeraash]

Thanks Stephen for the reply. But I doubt my problem is the infamous LV lock-up. In fact, I would be happier if it is. My is basically under exposed by 3/4-1 stop, 3-4 frames in every 20 shots with peculiar shutter cycling noise. Is this the same as the LV lock-up problem?

[teeraash]

Regarding SD card, I'm using Sanddisk 95mb/second (16gb) and Lexar 16gb, 600X which has start-up time 50%-100% faster than the Sanddisk..

[Rick]

If it is that reproducible, take it back.

[jaapv]

Hi there,

I have the M for about a week or two and notice that it produces under exposed images randomly (around 1-2 frames in 20 shots) In LV mode using LCD screen. The shutter sound of these trouble frames is thick with low pitch noise compared to the normal ones. The shutter sometimes also get stuck when switching back to rangefinder mode (rarely happens, 4-5 times in 2 weeks), it couldn't be released and hence not able to take picture. My guess is that it has to do with the shutter cycling, close-open-close when taking pictures in LV mode. Anyone experiences this problem? I know that this could be fixed, may be by changing shutter release module but I am reluctant to send it in as there is a remote possibility that the new firmware may fix it. Also I would love to bring it along side my M-E to my upcoming trips to Italy and Japan in September and October.

 

Greatly appreciate your advise.

I doubt it has to do with firmware. Contact Leica, opinions on this forum won't repair it.

[StephenPatterson]

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Before you send it back to Leica Teera I think you should do more testing. I know you are new to Leica, and what you are describing as under exposure could be the central weighted metering working as it should. Try to take a series of 50 or 100 images with the camera stationary and unchanging light and see if the anomaly occurs.

[teeraash]

It is a same setup, Stephen. It can be on tripod or handheld without moving anything, same lighting conditions and take consecutive pictures. Randomly, 2-5 pictures out of 20 will be underexposed by 3/4-1 stop. And when this problem occurs, shutter sound will be kind of thick, short with lower pitch noise than usual.

 

I'm reluctant to send it back and have to wait 2-4 months to have it back which may not be in time for my vacation in Sep and Oct.. Besides, if this is a problem relating with firmware, then it's such a waste of opportunity to send it back. Will email Leica Singapore and hope that they know something about this problem.

 

As of now, I think I have two options. Send it back now or wait until they release firmware to address LV lock up and see whether it solve my problem or not. What you guys think?

 

Thanks for chiming in.

[StephenPatterson]

Where is your vacation in Sept and Oct? Germany? I know it is difficult for you living in Bangkok, as shipping into and out of the country can greatly complicate things and slow down the process. Perhaps send it directly to Leica in Germany and they can return it to you while on holiday? From what you and others have told me the customs problems in Thailand can be very complicated.

 

After hearing more of your explanation I do agree with Rick and Jaap that this is not normal and will need to be looked at by Leica.

[teeraash]

Thanks everyone. I have an appointment to see the owner of Leica Boutique store that bought camera this Saturday to see what he can do for me. Glad that this is an isolated problem. Will keep you all informed about the outcome.

[jaapv]

I would advise sending it directly to Solms and picking it up there, as Stephen suggests.

[pedaes]

I would advise sending it directly to Solms and picking it up there, as Stephen suggests.

 

Surely Teera is correct in seeing what store says first. They may accept camera is faulty and offer a replacement. If it is agreed to go down the repair route with a two week old camera then obviously worth looking at options suggested. Local consumer law protection may offer other solutions.

[teeraash]

Thanks pedaes for the sound advise but sadly, here in my country legal right and protection are worth less than nothing nowsaday.

[digitalfx]

Randomly, 2-5 pictures out of 20 will be underexposed by 3/4-1 stop. And when this problem occurs, shutter sound will be kind of thick, short with lower pitch noise than usual.

 

 

I have experienced this exact situation (including sound), but maybe only 2-3 times per 400 shots. I believe its FW issue that will be resolved soon. Im not sure why you are experiencing this so frequently, maybe something with the way you are using the camera?

 

Local consumer law protection may offer other solutions.

Local consumer protection laws are worthless if there is no inventory in stock.

[teeraash]

Hi digitalfx:

 

I'm quite sure it wasn't the firmware quirk. Today the problem sound/underexposed is almost gone. I had only 2-3 frames in may be 200 shots and the problem frames were around 1/2 stop off. Before it was a stop off. The thick/short/low frequency sound also changed and it is harder to detect the problem now just by listening alone. My diagnose is that it has to do with some kind of friction/resistance of shutter blades of the brand new camera that prevent it from proper opening and closing. If my guess is right, I may not be able to reproduce the problem at all in a day or two from now.

 

Anyway, I will go to the store and show them the problem frames taken a few seconds apart from good frames with same setting but had different exposure outcomes so that they can relay this information to the authorized distributor/Leica.

 

Have a nice shooting,

Teera

Edited July 26, 2013 by teeraash

[teeraash]

May be because Leica's effort to damp down shutter sound that cause this problem to some new camera. As effort to damp the sound may create some additional friction to shutter blades? Fortunately, the problem seems to wane off as the camera being used more and more. Also this problem seems to affect only in LV mode as the shutter has to double the cycle: close-open-close-open just to take one frame.

[digitalfx]

Hi digitalfx:

 

I'm quite sure it wasn't the firmware quirk. Today the problem sound/underexposed is almost gone. I had only 2-3 frames in may be 200 shots and the problem frames were around 1/2 stop off. Before it was a stop off. The thick/short/low frequency sound also changed and it is harder to detect the problem now just by listening alone. My diagnose is that it has to do with some kind of friction/resistance of shutter blades of the brand new camera that prevent it from proper opening and closing. If my guess is right, I may not be able to reproduce the problem at all in a day or two from now.

 

Anyway, I will go to the store and show them the problem frames taken a few seconds apart from good frames with same setting but had different exposure outcomes so that they can relay this information to the authorized distributor/Leica.

 

Have a nice shooting,

Teera

 

let me guess...you were using new batteries fully charged when you had the first issues, now the batteries have gone thru a couple charge cycles and the problem is less. try a few more charge cycles and I bet the issues go away.

 

My lock ups and exposure issues have nearly disappeared since the batteries have been charged 3-4 times. My guess the power management in FW needs tweaking.

[teeraash]

My M worked flawlessly yesterday except a bunch of user (setting) errors. Time to move forward to exploring how to best use the camera. Also it is very helpful to use the LV Mode to check lenses back and front-focus and how to compensate for that in actual usage. Found out that my recently purchased 35mm Summicron is a little back focused at all apertures. Any suggestion?

[jaapv]

My M worked flawlessly yesterday except a bunch of user (setting) errors. Time to move forward to exploring how to best use the camera. Also it is very helpful to use the LV Mode to check lenses back and front-focus and how to compensate for that in actual usage. Found out that my recently purchased 35mm Summicron is a little back focused at all apertures. Any suggestion?

It shouldn't be. I picked up a new Summicron 35 asph Tuesday and it focuses to perfection on the M. Well, maybe..2-3mm front focus at minimum focussing distance wide open.

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[wda]

Could it merely be an operator metering aberration? Sky often over-influences a meter unless the camera is deflected downwards while metering. In such circumstances I switch my M9 to manual operation. It is a little slower, but more precise for me.