M6 v M6TTL

[kinross]

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Hi everyone. I am seriously considering buying a Leica for for B/W film.

 

I had decided on the M6 as if I use flash it is always in manual mode.( I have an M9)

 

The reason for this post is that on scanning the forum it does seem that some members think that the M6TTL has a smoother to use exposure setting ring. I am open to buying an M6TTL.

 

Have any members any thoughts on this and any other pro's and con's re the two cameras.

I fully appreciate some things to do with the use of a camera can be subjective, but I like to consider other peoples experience.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Mike.

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[de-JTC]

Hello Mike,

 

I was at the same point some years ago when I bought my first Leica.

 

If you have an M9 it probably makes more sense to go for the M6TTL as the exposure setting ring is more similar in size and operates in the same direction, whereas the M6 operates exactly the other way around, which may be confusing.

 

Also, since the dial is larger it is easier to reach, but that also depends.

 

The clicks in the setting ring appear to be a little more crisp on my TTL, but that could also be my sample.

 

Otherwise, both cameras are equally great, so it is up to you if you want to go for the extra expense.

 

I found the TTL also a little more beautiful, but, as you said this is personal preference.

 

Cheers,

Jan

[atournas]

People reacted negatively when the M6TTL appeared and they only calmed down after the MP returned to the "roots". As a result, the M6 acquired a label: "Classic".

 

The reason had nothing to do with the image quality--it just happened that the M6 was out and unchanged for such a long time (almost 18 years) that had established a standard and an unbroken connection with the M3. It was also that Leica was for available light--"purists" never use a flash unit.

 

If you are satisfied with the M9's particular ergonomics, go for the M6TTL If, however, the title "Classic" appeals to you, go for the M6.

 

Paul

[colonel]

Hi everyone. I am seriously considering buying a Leica for for B/W film.

 

I had decided on the M6 as if I use flash it is always in manual mode.( I have an M9)

 

The reason for this post is that on scanning the forum it does seem that some members think that the M6TTL has a smoother to use exposure setting ring. I am open to buying an M6TTL.

 

Have any members any thoughts on this and any other pro's and con's re the two cameras.

I fully appreciate some things to do with the use of a camera can be subjective, but I like to consider other peoples experience.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Mike.

 

I started with a M6 but found the exposure dial difficult to turn (stiff and recessed).

I found the TTL much better just because of this fact.

 

Also consider whether you want aperture priority , in which case a M7 might be even better. With the M7 try and get one with a serial number over 288x as it has a much improved viewfinder and better film seating system.

[CalArts 99]

The only reason people "reacted negatively" to the M6TTL is because all of a sudden the shutter speed dial turned the 'wrong' way. And of course there's no difference in "image quality" since these are film cameras using the same lens. And there is no "purity" about a "classic title." The term 'classic' is used only to differentiate the TTL versus the non-TTL (I've yet to encounter a 'tainted' Leica ) Nor is anyone a 'purist' because they don't use a flash. M film cameras may not have always had a hot shoe, but they did have a cold shoe and flash sync posts (although the M3 and M2 didn't have standard PC style posts, you have to use an adapter or install PC posts.) That 'purist' stuff is really just Leica hobbyist silliness.

 

imho, the issue comes with two things: the shutter speed dial and the TTL circuitry. If you are new to Leica and started with the M9, then the M6TTL is probably the better choice due to the shutter speed dials being similar. It's only if you use a pre-TTL (or the later MP) that the dial will create problems for you since your instincts/reactions are going to get confused. e.g., I use a M4 and M6 and they are identical in operation. (I've since sold my M9, but it did have aperture priority that I could use to try 'ignore' the 'shutter speed dial issue' which helped a bit.) If one sticks to camera models with the same functions and uses them all the time, one can get really fast and adept with it. Any differences between the models will only serve to slow you down. It's like driving different cars with switches in different locations.

 

If you stick with M6TTL, M7, M9, then operation is going to be basically the same. If you ever do use another M film model, then it can be irritating.

 

As far as flash is concerned, the TTL is nothing exciting since it's old technology. It's simply off the film plane flash operation with no matrix or multiple flash use, etc.. So it's just simple TTL flash. It may come in handy for you at some point, but using a auto aperture flash can work just as well. The downside to the TTL if you are a flash user is that without a camera battery the flash won't fire. It will fire w/o a battery with the pre-M6 models.

 

The M6TTL also came in three finder magnifications if that's of interest (.58/72/.85) The pre-TTL M6 did come with the .85 but that was during the last year of production and they are rare to find. It's usually best to get the .72 unless you are definitely going to stick to specific focal lengths lenses only. And anything besides a .72 usually sells for more money.

 

There is also the M6TTL Millennium in black paint (which has the old film rewind if you prefer that over the quick lever rewind.) But again, you'll pay more for styling. The LHSA black paint does have the lever rewind but it also costs more.

 

For someone using the M9 already, the TTL will make more sense in terms of everyday use since they are more similar (i.e., the shutter speed dial.) The M7 will be even closer (with aperture priority) but is battery dependent; of course so is your M9. The M7 may be an even better choice for you in respect to similarity in use.

[kinross]

Thank you all for your response to my post. I have noted the various comments.

The exposure ring turning the opposite way on the M6 had passed me by. It would be confusing. As regards aperture priority I started to use it when I first had my M9. Then I decided to try manual and have never gone back to aperture, I do not now why, just forgot about it. I think after considering all your comments I will go for the M6TTL.

 

I will keep you posted how I get on. I am quite excited about it. I will have to buy a scanner at some point. I will then at least be able to see my old negatives and colour slides which have been put away for a long time. I may process my own film later, but I will cross one bridge at a time.

 

Thank you all again.

 

Mike

[sandro]

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I only use analogue Leica M bodies, older ones like M3 and M4, my newest is a M6TTL that I bought new long ago. Every now and then I use the M6TTL together with an M4 or another older M, and I never found it a problem that the shutter speed dial runs the other direction. So I wouldn't worry much about that. I use flash not entirely but almost exclusively with the M6TTL and it works beautifully.

Lex

[jdlaing]

Thank you all for your response to my post. I have noted the various comments.

The exposure ring turning the opposite way on the M6 had passed me by. It would be confusing. As regards aperture priority I started to use it when I first had my M9. Then I decided to try manual and have never gone back to aperture, I do not now why, just forgot about it. I think after considering all your comments I will go for the M6TTL.

 

I will keep you posted how I get on. I am quite excited about it. I will have to buy a scanner at some point. I will then at least be able to see my old negatives and colour slides which have been put away for a long time. I may process my own film later, but I will cross one bridge at a time.

 

Thank you all again.

 

Mike

 

A good choice. I use one and am quite pleased with it.

[too old to care]

I can't add much here, but I bought my TTL new in the 90's. It is my first Leica and only Leica. I love it and have no desire to have anything else, even the .85 finder is perfect for me. You won't regret getting one a bit.

 

Wayne

[engelfangen]

M6 without TTL!

[Photoskeptic]

FYI, the TTL is a tiny bit taller due to the TTL circuitry so weighs a tiny bit more than the Classic.

I shot an M4 alongside an M6 TTL and the difference in the shutter speed dials was never a problem. I preferred the TTL due to the larger dial and since the little arrows are in the viewfinder there was never a question as to which way it was going. The smaller dial on the M4, however for me, always had to be looked at to be certain you had it where you wanted it - if you were changing speeds. Mostly I set all rangefinders to a pre-determined setting and forget about it.

Even though the TTL uses a battery it is not necessary to have a battery installed to shoot the camera. Many film photographers of note continue to use the M6 to this day as they never needed anything else (or better!).

Good luck.

[almoore]

Have any members any thoughts on this and any other pro's and con's re the two cameras

 

As others have said the only real difference is that the original M6 had a smaller stiffer shutter speed dial; the TTL is also marginally taller. I prefer the original camera because it's virtually impossible to inadvertently change shutter speeds, but both cameras have a tactile appeal and slickness that will leave your M9 feeling bloated and clunky.

[BrianUK]

Hi Mike (kinross).

 

My two pennyworth: I've used a M6 TTL for nearly thirteen years (with a 35 Summicron) and never felt the need for another film Leica M.

 

Some make a big deal out of the 'wrong way round' speed dial, and I appreciate it's not universally liked. But, it turns the correct way when following the LEDs in the viewfinder to adjust exposure - the LED arrows point which way to turn the speed dial or aperture ring.

 

Once you get to know this feature, it becomes second nature and is very fast in use, especially as the larger speed dial can be turned with the edge of your index finger with the camera to your eye.

 

Another criticism is veiwfinder flare, as the front glass isn't multi-coated (at least mine isn't - were the latest ones?). I've never, ever found this (and rangefinder patch flare) a problem, even in really bright glare. Other's have.

 

My firm advice is to try out a M6 TTL to see if it suits your needs and way of working. You might take to it like it's your new best friend or you may not. Only you can decide.

 

For me, the M6 TTL just works, simply, reliably (so far!), espeically loading film, which is a breeze.

 

Can't help with flash, I'm afraid, never used flash with my M6 TTL in my life!

 

I've written about my M6 TTL on my blog (below), which you may find of interest.

 

Good luck with you decision!

[philipus]

Brian, just wanted to say thanks for linking to your site. It's very nice. Your write-up on the various Ms, and the TTL in particular (I have the same one), is very inspiring and, I'd say, an almost essential read for anyone trying to pick a camera. I agree with almost all you say about the TTL, with the slight exception that I do find viewfinder flare disturbing (and I will have mine fixed (in the non-canine way) soon). I also have an M4 and don't find it annoying that the two cameras' dials turn in the opposite direction.

[kinross]

Thanks again for posts since my last one. I have taken it all in and yesterday morning I bit the bullet and ordered a black M6 TTL. It came this morning and is excellent cosmetically.

It has the original box and all packing and the original sale invoice which shows it was purchased in Australia by a UK citizen in November 2001.I have chosen black as this will go with the majority of my M9 lens. I have been out today and taken a few shots.

 

My first impression is that it is very similar in feel to my M9. My only slight initial concern is the amount of travel on the shutter release before it fires. I have found a Leica button in my drawer that I bought for the M9 but did not get on with. I have fitted to the M6 and tried a few exposures in my garden and it is fine. I did find that when I used the M9 immediately after the M6 the shutter fired before I was ready!!! I will finish off the roll of film and get it processed and see how I have done.

Thanks again for all the info. passed to me.

 

Will post again if anything comes up and when I get some results.

cheers.

Mike.

[too old to care]

Enjoy the camera, I love mine. The shutter button operation you describe is the same as my TTL, it does not fire until I have pushed it almost all the way down, probably in the last 5 or 10% of movement.

 

Wayne

[kinross]

Hi Wayne. Thanks for that info. I wondered if my shutter release was out of adjustment. I think it is the comparison to the M9 that threw me. it was just that when your senses are all tuned up to framing and thinking about the shot it seemed an eternity before the shutter fired.

 

The button I have fitted helps, but it does not look very pretty. Will probably persevere without it.

 

Thanks again.

 

Mike.

[BrianUK]

Brian, just wanted to say thanks for linking to your site. It's very nice. Your write-up on the various Ms, and the TTL in particular (I have the same one), is very inspiring and, I'd say, an almost essential read for anyone trying to pick a camera. I agree with almost all you say about the TTL, with the slight exception that I do find viewfinder flare disturbing (and I will have mine fixed (in the non-canine way) soon). I also have an M4 and don't find it annoying that the two cameras' dials turn in the opposite direction.

 

Why, thank you philipus, for your kind comment. Very generous of you.

 

We all learn a little when we share our knowledge and experiences.

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[BrianUK]

...My only slight initial concern is the amount of travel on the shutter release before it fires. I have found a Leica button in my drawer that I bought for the M9 but did not get on with. I have fitted to the M6 and tried a few exposures in my garden and it is fine. I did find that when I used the M9 immediately after the M6 the shutter fired before I was ready!!!

 

Typical M6 TTL shutter operation, Mike. Mine fires almost at the bottom of its travel, and is smooth all the way down to release.

 

Better if you can make do without the Leica button, I feel. I've seen shutter buttons knocked out whack by the the button extension being hit, not just on Leicas.

 

Congratulations on your purchase. Enjoy!

[smb]

I have both and go back and forth without a problem. The only issue was with the M6ttl 0.85 viewfinder. It had too much flare and during a repair I replaced the the viewfinder with the MP viewfinder. The very early Classic models had some issue with the metering that needed to go by for repair/upgrade. The only point that the M6ttl has over the Classic is that the ttl is newer and my be in better condition but that can be a moot point as there are plenty of excellent condition Classics out there.