stephen.w Posted July 8, 2013 Share #1 Posted July 8, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi all, could anyone help me diagnose the seemingly identical banding in these two shots? They were two frames apart on a roll of HP5+. Taken with the M6. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/208419-name-that-band/?do=findComment&comment=2369049'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 8, 2013 Posted July 8, 2013 Hi stephen.w, Take a look here Name that band. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
earleygallery Posted July 8, 2013 Share #2 Posted July 8, 2013 Hi, The banding could be a light leak either in the camera or during processing. It could also be a processing or scanning fault. Most unlikely, a fault on the film. You need to work out which by a process of elimination. How does the banding appear on the negatives? Does it extend beyond the frames? Has it affected any other shots? Light leaks on M's often come from the viewfinder area into the camera. I would say this looks too large to be such a leak, compared to other effects I've seen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted July 8, 2013 Share #3 Posted July 8, 2013 A light leak in the camera body is the most likely cause, I think. The second image appears to suggest that your cameras might have issues with the shutter as well. There is a distinct change in exposure from the left to the right half of the picture, unless it's a shadow on the wall behind the child. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted July 8, 2013 Share #4 Posted July 8, 2013 I don't know but to me a light leak has always implied a denser negative because it has had more exposure, and this translates to a lighter band or artefact in the print. I suppose the entire bottom half of the frame (top in the camera) could be the light leak and the darker top band is 'normal' which is the only sense I can make of a light leak. The pictures do look thin and washed out overall. The fact that it is two frames apart, and presumably from what we are told only on these two frames throws up a problem of it not being development related. So can it be seen on the negative, or just on the print? Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted July 8, 2013 Share #5 Posted July 8, 2013 Yes, quite. The dark band at the top of the image appears to be the undamaged portion of the image. That would imply that light is entering the camera and striking the film and that something is shadowing the bottom 1mm or so of the film. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted July 9, 2013 Share #6 Posted July 9, 2013 Was the lens changed in bright light, was the camera rested on a table in bright light? I would have expected to see more unevenness in the light leak if either of those were the case, but I wouldn't rule it out. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen.w Posted July 9, 2013 Author Share #7 Posted July 9, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks all for your replies. The banding can be seen in the negatives as well as the scanned images and only appeared on these frames. This is the frame between the two (first image below). I can't remember whether I changed my exposure in between, but probably did on account of the strong morning sunlight coming in through the window. This roll was shot in December last year. I hadn't encountered this issue before or since and not being able to diagnose it, thought I'd just dismiss it unless/until it happened again. However, last week I put a roll of cheap colour film through it and shot two non-consecutive frames at each speed. In one frame I encountered the exact same effect (second image below): the dark, properly exposed band at the top and the lower part of the image washed out. It seems the best case scenario is that the problem came at the developing stage (these were all lab processed). However, that seems unlikely, given that it only affected the two frames on the first roll and the one frame on the second. Worst case: shutter problem or a light leak Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/208419-name-that-band/?do=findComment&comment=2369728'>More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted July 9, 2013 Share #8 Posted July 9, 2013 When I mentioned the negatives, I meant can you see the banding beyond the image frame area? If you can't, that would confirm a light leak for sure, and one coming from the front of the shutter. If you CAN see the banding on the negs beyond the frame, then it could still be a light leak, from behind the shutter curtains, or some other issue. Processing issues are more likely to affect the whole film or a portion of it, not single frames. As it has happened on different films it's most likely to be a light leak, so it may be best to send it for a CLA and include these images so they can try to track it down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen.w Posted July 9, 2013 Author Share #9 Posted July 9, 2013 James, no not beyond the image area, which would suggest the light coming in through the front, as you say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted July 9, 2013 Share #10 Posted July 9, 2013 In that case I'd say it's a light leak coming in from the viewfinder. I've read that there are some material seals which can deteriorate or move which cause this. I'd try holding the camera up to a bright light in front, with the back and shutter open and you might see it. They are often intermittent however and only fog the film when the light catches from a certain angle. Remember that in the camera the neg is upside down and back to front! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen.w Posted July 10, 2013 Author Share #11 Posted July 10, 2013 Was the lens changed in bright light, was the camera rested on a table in bright light? I would have expected to see more unevenness in the light leak if either of those were the case, but I wouldn't rule it out. Steve Steve, only just seen this reply. The answers to your questions are no, and no. I used two lenses when shooting this roll but would have changed lenses indoors. I used only one lens for the roll of colour film. I showed the negs and scans to a camera technician friend. He inspected the camera fairly closely with a bright light, from front and back and could see no source for the leakage. He watched and listened to the shutter on all speeds and was also of the view that everything was in order. There was quite a bit of light (excuse pun) debris in the body of the camera, which he cleaned out. The only thing he could think of is that there might be a chip of film or some dust/dirt in the shutter which is coming into play when the shutter blades cross (?) I will shoot another roll or two and see if the problem resolves. Otherwise its off to Malcolm Taylor or CRR, or a local repairman if I can find one. Makes the decision to get the .58x M7 I've been eyeing easier to justify! I migFrom the little I know about light leaks and how to diagnose them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen.w Posted July 10, 2013 Author Share #12 Posted July 10, 2013 In that case I'd say it's a light leak coming in from the viewfinder. I've read that there are some material seals which can deteriorate or move which cause this. I'd try holding the camera up to a bright light in front, with the back and shutter open and you might see it. They are often intermittent however and only fog the film when the light catches from a certain angle. Remember that in the camera the neg is upside down and back to front! James, excuse my possible ignorance, but if the light was coming in through the viewfinder, would I not see it on more shots, especially those in brighter light? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
normclarke Posted July 10, 2013 Share #13 Posted July 10, 2013 I would say that the cause is that the bottom seal of the light trap is faulty. A fairly simple job to fix with the body apart. Best, normclarke. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen.w Posted July 10, 2013 Author Share #14 Posted July 10, 2013 Thanks, Norm - but the light leak seems to be coming from the front I saw yesterday that the rubber seal at the bottom of the light trap is actually a bit perished. Might be worth eliminating that possibility (should be an easy fix, as you say) before sending it off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
normclarke Posted July 10, 2013 Share #15 Posted July 10, 2013 Sorry to be pessimistic, but it could also be a blind curl needing a replacement. Best, normclarke. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen.w Posted July 11, 2013 Author Share #16 Posted July 11, 2013 ... and now two rolls developed without a single problem. Don't know whether to just relax and wait to see whether it happens again or else send off a (possibly, now) perfectly functional camera This on PanF+ 50... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/208419-name-that-band/?do=findComment&comment=2371785'>More sharing options...
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