APO Summicron 50/2 ASPH: Central veiling flare / fogging

[pajamies]

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We had a sunny day on monday, tried out the 50/2 AA.

Amazing sharpness. Central fogging I have not detected yet.

Propensity for veiling seems to be higher than what I've experienced with Summilux 35/1.4 (new) or the WATE e.g.

 

Here is a link to some pictures from monday.

There is fog in the pictures, but it is real fog from he lake.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/j2gtu30y0xvlom4/YoQGNiJzTB

 

Here is a link to the DNG:s / TIFF

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/z2p2qr7xgxaa8gy/4X89gXv_4_

 

 

I guess I should have explained that this 50/2 AA was sent to Solms for repair in July, and these pictures were taken with he repaired lens

[erudolph]

This is the status of my APO as of today November 13

repair number XXXXX

Datum Status

09.10.2013 Service order registered on

11.10.2013 Oder confirmation sent

11.10.2013 In repair

 

Interestingl, in comparison to Ario's, my service repair status:

 

10.10.2013 Service order registered on

11.10.2013 Oder confirmation sent

11.10.2013 In repair

[algrove]

I guess I should have explained that this 50/2 AA was sent to Solms for repair in July, and these pictures were taken with he repaired lens

 

I remember your first post where you showed a silver ring deep into the lens. Can you now post a comparison shot from the same angle so that we might be able to compare the before and after repair? Thanks.

[wizard]

Those silver rings appear to be the outer edges of a lens element. I have once seen the manufacturing process at Leica in Solms, and these edges are blackened by hand by applying a matte black coating. If that blackening process is not done correctly, i.e. if portions of a lens element's edge remain uncovered, then it is entirely possible that those silver rings do show up, causing unwanted internal reflections when incoming light strikes those portions at the 'right' angle. The fix is obviously easy, but will require to dismantle the entire lens and lens elements.

 

Andy

 

P.S.: I might add that the faint grey rings some of you are seeing at their samples actually point towards a correct blackening of the lens edges

[pajamies]

Ok algrove.

Unfortunately the lighting in my study is very different from July. The picture was then taken in natural light. Now my study does not get so much natural light, I had to use artificial lighting.

So these are not really comparable.

The first one with my desk lamp on, the second one with the iPhone flash. Both Nov 5th 2013

The third one is the picture in my first post in July.

Not a terribly convincing series, I know, but little did I know in July that "the whole world's scrutiny" would be focussed on my iPhone photo...

Should have used studio equipment

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[algrove]

Thanks so much for the photos.

 

Strange, but mine looks very much like your repaired one. As when I look into mine I see the gray rings and then why down sep one thin silver ring which looks like what I am seeing in yours.

[thighslapper]

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Hope they do not turn out like the 35.70 F 2.8 which became a collector item

 

As a flagship and much trumpeted 'best 50mm lens in the world' I don't think Leica can afford to drop this product.

 

In true Leica fashion there will be silence for a while, then they will mysteriously start appearing again with no warning or explanation.

 

If the issues are sproradic, multifactorial and inconsistent then a definitive solution may be a long time coming ......

[Leicaiste]

Hope they do not turn out like the 35.70 F 2.8 which became a collector item

 

Or the first 30 ex. of the M-90/2 Apo Made in Canada.

[lct]

Never mind the first batch will become a collectors for its inimitable glow and their owners will convince themselves that it was in fact the better lens like 50/1.2 or 35/1.4 AA uber expensive Leica lenses.

[Hey You]

When this lens is focussed at its closest distance (i.e., fully extended), a portion of the brass focussing helicoid is exposed. This is both very shiny and very close to the lens element. If internal reflections arise, this may compound them. Perhaps the unpredictable aspect of the veiling is that it is related to both angle of incoming light and also lens extension.

[wattsy]

Never mind the first batch will become a collectors for its inimitable glow and their owners will convince themselves that it was in fact the better lens like 50/1.2 or 35/1.4 AA uber expensive Leica lenses.

 

Or Leica will resume production with undocumented improvements and the first batch will take on pariah status. In the future, buyers will be asking if it is the "flare free 2014 version".

[algrove]

As a request for an update.

 

Has anyone else other than pajamies received their APO50 back? If so, how do the images compare from images taken prior to sending it back to Leica. Or did you just send it back to have it checked out without any flaring issues?

[ALD]

I think that we should set up a petition with forum members signing it requesting an official very explanatory detailed description of the problems with this lens and including all statistics. I really want to buy this lens but want to know I am not buying troubles.

[Nicolas Soldati]

I think that we should set up a petition with forum members signing it requesting an official very explanatory detailed description of the problems with this lens and including all statistics. I really want to buy this lens but want to know I am not buying troubles.

 

+ 1

 

Almost 15 months that I have ordered it and no comment from Leica so far. What an arrogant behavior !!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ALD]

Yes that's right about the 2013 version ! I thought about it that I would never part with my money to buy the APO summicron 50mm used or new until I know that the issues have been resolved. The horrible thing is that many here on the forum are in close contact with LEICA and could fully explain the situation and give an indication if the issue has been resolved or not. I don't see how Leica can not already introduce a version I I of this lens and recall all earlier versions and release the entire batch again making version 1 a rarity.

[DMJ]

As a request for an update.

 

Has anyone else other than pajamies received their APO50 back? If so, how do the images compare from images taken prior to sending it back to Leica. Or did you just send it back to have it checked out without any flaring issues?

 

 

Mine came back from Germany yesterday, it's been abroad since the end of September. Only had one incident of flaring, but in view of the problems others were experiencing then I contacted Leica & they were happy enough to take it back for checking. I haven't gone looking for problems with it yet, but this time of year the sunlight is somewhat different so I'm not expecting to fully challenge it again for some time.

 

Martin

[algrove]

Mine came back from Germany yesterday, it's been abroad since the end of September. Only had one incident of flaring, but in view of the problems others were experiencing then I contacted Leica & they were happy enough to take it back for checking. I haven't gone looking for problems with it yet, but this time of year the sunlight is somewhat different so I'm not expecting to fully challenge it again for some time.

 

Martin

 

When looking into the lens can you see if anything has changed like pajamies could see changes from when he got it new? Thanks for any info along those lines. Also was there any indication of what work was performed on the work order recipe that came back with the lens?

[DMJ]

When looking into the lens can you see if anything has changed like pajamies could see changes from when he got it new? Thanks for any info along those lines. Also was there any indication of what work was performed on the work order recipe that came back with the lens?

 

 

I can't say if anything has changed because I did not take pictures of the inside of the lens prior to sending it to Germany. However, mine looks very dark in there; I can not see anything silvery. Essentially it looks like pajamies photograph earlier in this thread. The documentation that returned just states that 'sent to Quality Control Dept for further examinations, optic reflexes, optical adjustment M8/M9, adjustment of all parts, we make test pictures to check quality, repair free of charge'. Basically the standard for a lens check. Under the section 'Necessary parts' it is blank.

 

The image quality was fantastic before I sent it in. It was only that one afternoon in my parents house that I noticed problems, but having seen something strange & then in the next few days reading what others had noted I decided (as it was still in warranty) to get it checked. Seeing as mine looks as the photos above & is very dark inside then I would guess that silvery surfaces have been dealt with.

 

Martin

[Hey You]

Has the brass focussing helicoid inside the lens been rendered black and non-reflective?

On my 50 Apo, this is bright and shiny, and I suspect it's part of the problem.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[John Gartner]

My copy of the 50 Apo Summicron, which I received in early July, had clearly visible CVF problems. I inquired about how to proceed with getting this fixed with both Leica Solms and New Jersey. I received the following message from customer service Solms:

 

"Dear .... Thank you for your email. I apologize for the delayed reply. We sincerely apologize for the inconvenience this issue has caused you. It is correct that we identified the problem and have found a solution. However, the replacements still have to be produced and there are some delays in the delivery of a necessary component. So we have no confirmed date at this time. Naturally, you can send your lens in for repair but we have to ask for your understanding that the turnaround time could be somewhat extensive at the moment. The advantage is that your lens will be registered for exchange. We will replace your lens, retaining the same serial number."

 

So it does appear that Leica have identified the root of the problem (which they did not share with me in their email) and will address it by exchanging the defective units. My lens is now in Solms. I hope the replacement arrives before spring.

 

It is unfortunate for Leica that this problem occurred in what is supposed to be their flagship achievement in lens design. It must be hugely embarrassing for them; but for those of us affected, keep heart, they do have a solution in the pipeline.