CaptZoom Posted July 3, 2013 Share #141 Posted July 3, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) What a piece of *unreliable junk. *Unreliable; As defined by Marc the professional photographer: "Zero lock-ups, zero failures, zero missed shots due to equipment hiccups, need to reboot, or remove the battery and start up agin. Zero. Subjectively, for my needs, I'd call that reliable ... anything less ... isn't." - Marc And, as Marc tells us again and again, we must respect the professional photographers. They are professionals... not just a "Travel Log" Leica Fanboy. This Marc fella must use the iPhone camera exclusively; it's the only camera I own (the other cameras being a FED-3, SD400, 40D, 5Dmkii, M9) that's never locked-up on me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 3, 2013 Posted July 3, 2013 Hi CaptZoom, Take a look here diglloyd: "Leica M Typ240: Unreliable". I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Jeff S Posted July 3, 2013 Share #142 Posted July 3, 2013 This Marc fella must use the iPhone camera exclusively... Marc posted this comment regarding his use of the Sony A900. From other posts in this forum and elsewhere, I believe he has extensively used the M9 and M9-P, S2, Hasselblad, R system (with DMR) and others. When he had a problem with the S2, I recall that he posted this comment, which shows one example of S2 professional service in comparison to M service. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted July 3, 2013 Share #143 Posted July 3, 2013 Jeff, I think CaptZoom was not really asking a real question, he was joking around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted July 3, 2013 Share #144 Posted July 3, 2013 Methinks a bit of sarcasm (your prior post as well), which demanded a real response. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptZoom Posted July 3, 2013 Share #145 Posted July 3, 2013 Methinks a bit of sarcasm (your prior post as well), which demanded a real response. Jeff No sarcasm, really was a joke. Marc, many apologies- I did not realize "Marc" referred to a fellow forum member and a specific post. I tried to delete/edit my post, but I'm unable to do so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted July 3, 2013 Share #146 Posted July 3, 2013 Feel free to stick to your rules of thumb. He’s using the term ‘retrofocus’ as it is defined – a retrofocus lens is longer than its focal length, just like a telephoto lens is shorter than its focal length. Negative elements at the front of the lens are just the means to this end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted July 3, 2013 Share #147 Posted July 3, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) He’s using the term ‘retrofocus’ as it is defined ... Yes, I do. After all, any other usage of a term would be meaningless. ... a retrofocus lens is longer than its focal length ... Umm ... no, that's not how it's defined. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted July 3, 2013 Share #148 Posted July 3, 2013 Until reading this thread, I've never seen or heard the term "retrofocus-like." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted July 4, 2013 Share #149 Posted July 4, 2013 Yes, I do. After all, any other usage of a term would be meaningless. My reply is here: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-lenses/290934-m240-some-wideangles.html#post2447376 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mixalis Posted July 4, 2013 Share #150 Posted July 4, 2013 diglloyd blog - Leica M Typ 240: Unreliable Has others experienced this? I am still waiting for my M240. Yes, I have had many lockups, often requiring the battery to be removed. Other times simply switching off and on does the trick. Occasionally it locks with the rear screen stuck on. The lock ups happen usually while writing a file. I have tried various SD cards and currently am using a Fuji card my Leica dealer recommended. Since then I have had fewer instances but the problem as not been cured. My M240 has been back to Solms for the lug recall and it was tested and re calibrated while there. I live in hope of a firmware update that will cure the problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted July 4, 2013 Share #151 Posted July 4, 2013 Yes, I have had many lockups, often requiring the battery to be removed. Other times simply switching off and on does the trick. Occasionally it locks with the rear screen stuck on. The lock ups happen usually while writing a file. I have tried various SD cards and currently am using a Fuji card my Leica dealer recommended. Since then I have had fewer instances but the problem as not been cured. My M240 has been back to Solms for the lug recall and it was tested and re calibrated while there. I live in hope of a firmware update that will cure the problem. So, do you regard your M as reliable or unreliable? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted July 4, 2013 Share #152 Posted July 4, 2013 I live in hope of a firmware update that will cure the problem. Welcome to the Leica user experience! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_livsey Posted July 4, 2013 Share #153 Posted July 4, 2013 "With the introduction of a perpetual upgrade program, every LEICA M8 will forever be a state-of-the-art digital camera. Today's and tomorrow's users will always be able to incorporate the latest refinements and developments in handling ease and technology. It is our aim to secure your investment in the LEICA M8 for the future. While other digital cameras quickly become outdated and are replaced by newer models, our new concept extends the value retention and resistance to obsolescence embodied in the Leica ethos. Over time, we will gradually offer new product features and developments as upgrade options, declares Steven K. Lee, CEO of Leica Camera AG. " Can you believe anything they say? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timd. Posted July 4, 2013 Share #154 Posted July 4, 2013 Can you believe anything they say? right, chris: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! (haltbar bis = fresh until) did anybody really believe that when the m8 entered the stage? Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! (haltbar bis = fresh until) did anybody really believe that when the m8 entered the stage? ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/207802-diglloyd-leica-m-typ240-unreliable/?do=findComment&comment=2366186'>More sharing options...
chris_livsey Posted July 4, 2013 Share #155 Posted July 4, 2013 right, chris: did anybody really believe that when the m8 entered the stage? Given the Leica history of service availability for "legacy" cameras, all be it film, and that M8 cameras were taken back for the sapphire glass/shutter framelines/shutter upgrades there was a reasonable amount of evidence that the statement by the then CEO was factual and could be relied on. That Leica can now not repair that camera, for certain faults, never mind upgrade it, any evidence base to judge current statements has been eroded. I acknowledge Leica are offering a discount against new for those affected by the unrepairable fault for which they should be commended. I think the problem is the Leica heritage, based on mechanical cameras, does not sit well with the modern life cycle of digital although both Nikon and Canon seemed to have done so successfully with similar heritages. Other manufacturers have failed completely and gone out of business, Leica have survived, so far, based largely on the heritage base of users with the lenses. If an M mount full frame came from another maker? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NazgulKing Posted July 5, 2013 Share #156 Posted July 5, 2013 You fail to understand that a retrofocus lens is simply a lens that uses negative groups at the back to increase the BFD for some purpose. In SLR the purpose is usually fitting the mirror, and for Leica M the purpose is decreasing the inclination of rays to avoid horrible color casts and fitting more elements for a better correction. Your "BFD being more than the FL" is the only misleading concept in this thread. Leica literature clearly defines the SEM as a retrofocus-like design, and retrofocus it is because of the negative groups, increased BFD, and clearly asymmetrical design. This and the fact that the SEM is an amazing lens, should be enough to prove my point: a retrofocus lens (even by your definition) can be much better than a symmetrical design. Just requires a great design, more elements, and great glass. Let's put it in simpler context. A retrofocus design is fundamentally a lens that features a negative element in front, and a positive element at the back. You can split the lenses all you want, but ultimately, you can always group together a combined negative element and a combined positive element at the back. A retrofocus is also known as a reverse telephoto, because a Galilean telescope design simply consists of a positive element and a negative element in that sequence, and the spacing between the lenses the sum of the focal lengths. Since the negative element has a negative focal length, a Galilean telescope is shorter and more compact than a Keplerian which consists of two positive elements. Now as for the Leica lens, I don't have the radii of curvature for all the elements, but it does look retrofocus like, but Leica seems to have added an additional negative element at the back probably as a field flattener or something of the like. Perhaps the positive elements are very strongly converging to bring into focus the meridional and skew rays and thus need some form of correction. Whether they are full successful is another thing. I seem to recall before they introduced the right profile corrections, the 21 SEMs had some of the dreaded color shifts. The problem with any mirrorless design with a short flange distance is that unless you shift backfocal length as further away from the sensor as possible, it's going to be bloody hard to focus all the rays very nicely. But doing so means the lens gets longer as a result. The SLR flange distance tends to kill off these rays because they never do arrive at the sensor anyway, though you will get some degree of vignetting as a result. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted July 5, 2013 Share #157 Posted July 5, 2013 A retrofocus design is fundamentally a lens that features a negative element in front, and a positive element at the back. By this nonsense "definition", the Super-Elmar-M 21 mm Asph would definitely be no retrofocus lens because it has a negative front element and a negative rear element. ... ultimately, you can always group together a combined negative element [at the front] and a combined positive element at the back. This is true for all retrofocus lenses—but also for many non-retrofocus lenses. So no, this is not "the definition." As a matter of fact, the definition of a retrofocus lens is very clear and very simple. For the life of me I cannot understand why some participants in this discussion so stubbornly refuse to grasp this. The problem with any mirrorless design with a short flange distance is ... Flange distance has absolutely definitely totally nothing to do with all this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ma9ical Posted July 5, 2013 Share #158 Posted July 5, 2013 The price is for the best rangefinder ever made, the small FF size, the quiet shutter noise and the superb image quality. Show me a fast FF DSLR the same size, quietness and IQ as the M240 and i write a check right now to replace my 5D. I won't hold my breath though. you should try the quiet mode of modern dSLRs, and body size is not that different (lens size is). I sold my 5DIII to get an M240, I certainly miss the quiet mode. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 5, 2013 Share #159 Posted July 5, 2013 As i said above, the 6D is significantly bulkier (145 x 111 x 71 vs 139 x 80 x 42mm) and heavier (770 vs 680g) than the M240. Also it cannot fit split image focus screens for manual lenses but it is another story. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ma9ical Posted July 5, 2013 Share #160 Posted July 5, 2013 As i said above, the 6D is significantly bulkier (145 x 111 x 71 vs 139 x 80 x 42mm) and heavier (770 vs 680g) than the M240. Also it cannot fit split image focus screens for manual lenses but it is another story. Just saw that, so apologies for the repeat. To be clear, I prefer the M240 to the 5DIII. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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