algrove Posted June 15, 2013 Share #141 Posted June 15, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Rick, Great story. Thanks, I will. June is shaping up to be way above average rainfall here but last weekend wasn't a total washout and I took some pictures of Hector Falls, just north of Watkins. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/nature-wildlife/288120-hector-falls.html As David Meunch (sp) says, Bad weather makes for great pictures. Or something to that effect, but you get the point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 Hi algrove, Take a look here Production Issues with M240?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
HV25 Posted June 15, 2013 Share #142 Posted June 15, 2013 The reality of this is that most of the people behind the counter at these stores can't afford a current Leica. The M has been released in such small quantities that some/most dealers don't even have one in the case to play with. Those that do, probably don't have one themselves. So, yes, most/all dealers should not have any real experience with the camera. Again, this camera may have a few firmware updates to come, but it really doesn't have any real problems - I use it everyday and it seems like a mature camera. That is possibly the case ! As a consequence the potential customer is not getting the best advise or information from the people he would actually trust to be in the know (note - this is a Leica store I was originally referring to). Add this to the fact that none of the Leica stores I have been to in the past few months seems to be aware if and when stock arrives and what you end up with is rather poor customer service. If it wasn't for forums like this there would be little to no information on the circumstances of this 'milestone' product launch from Leica. Of course none of the above is going to make the current Leica M-Range users to question their camera of choice. But what about 'new to the M-Range' customers ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3D-Kraft.com Posted June 15, 2013 Share #143 Posted June 15, 2013 To put this in perspective, the M was announced when there were only early prototypes available; the cameras wasn’t yet ready to ramp up production and Leica said as much – the actual roll-out was supposed to commence in early 2013. The X Vario, while being announced 9 months after the M, was actually developed in parallel; the beta test of the X Vario started not much later than the beta test of the M, i.e. in late 2012. As far as I remember, at the time of the Photokina presentation, the hardware design was finalized already and they were only working on the software (wasn't it you who explained that here?). That means that they could have started retrieving/assembling components at that time. However - sooner or later the actual reasons for the delay will become public. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
airspeed Posted June 16, 2013 Share #144 Posted June 16, 2013 Funny that the camera we all obsess so much about (this is still the Leica camera forum, isn't it?) is produced not in the dynamic and innovative new world, but in old-fashioned socialist Europe(!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georg Posted June 16, 2013 Share #145 Posted June 16, 2013 " is produced not in the dynamic and innovative new world, but in old-fashioned socialist Europe(!)" Without these "old-fashioned socialists" production of any modern semiconductor would be impossible. Pushing the world back into the state of early industrialism (primitive mass production with slave-like labour) due to our financial businesses is not an option - wherever it takes place. We have to fight for higher - not lower - production standards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 16, 2013 Share #146 Posted June 16, 2013 Please note that the OT part of the discussion has been moved to the Bar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 16, 2013 Share #147 Posted June 16, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) " is produced not in the dynamic and innovative new world, but in old-fashioned socialist Europe(!)" Without these "old-fashioned socialists" production of any modern semiconductor would be impossible. Pushing the world back into the state of early industrialism (primitive mass production with slave-like labour) due to our financial businesses is not an option - wherever it takes place. We have to fight for higher - not lower - production standards. True. Most of the world's chips are produced on machines that are built less than 100 Km from where I live . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georg Posted June 16, 2013 Share #148 Posted June 16, 2013 Greetings to Veldhoven! To make it clear: I think they have ongoing trouble with ramping up production because they were stuffed in a small former furniture factory in 1988 and outsourced too many highly specialized technologies. It takes 36-42 months to train an optical or mechanic technician in Germany - those who were fired in the 1990s have most likely left the company for good. So they were propably too careful about investments in staff & equipment after the immediate success of the M9. Hope they change that in Wetzlar! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted June 16, 2013 Share #149 Posted June 16, 2013 Please note that the OT part of the discussion has been moved to the Bar. WHY? And why OT, you are the sole decider?(pejorative expression moderated) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 16, 2013 Share #150 Posted June 16, 2013 Please note that the OT part of the discussion has been moved to the Bar. I agree with algrove, you are the one that started the off-topice discussion, but when someone responds to it then you move it (but not all of it, cleaver you) to the Barnacks Bar where I'm sure the America bashing will start once again. The bar is a completely biased, foul, prejudiced portion of this wonderful forum which I encourage members to NOT participate in. Cheers, I'm taking a break from you for a while. Enjoy your bully pulpit... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted June 16, 2013 Author Share #151 Posted June 16, 2013 Back OT the explanation from Leica that production delays are due to overwhelming demand would make sense if dealers were receiving product, but the numbers just don't work. With approximately 600 worldwide dealers and a production rate often mentioned of 50 cameras per day each dealer should receive a camera every other week, and that certainly is not happening. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 16, 2013 Share #152 Posted June 16, 2013 Why so? First orders are served first hopefully. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tanks Posted June 16, 2013 Share #153 Posted June 16, 2013 True. Most of the world's chips are produced on machines that are built less than 100 Km from where I live . Really? I didn't know Applied Materials had plants in Europe:p If you look at the article linked, you will not see a single European company listed (by market share) in the top ten. Applied Materials Fared The Worst Of Any Major U.S. Equipment Supplier In 2012 - Seeking Alpha Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 16, 2013 Share #154 Posted June 16, 2013 Never heard of ASML? They may be unknown in the USA being merely the world's largest photolithography machine supplier for the chip industry. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASML_Holding Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 16, 2013 Share #155 Posted June 16, 2013 I agree with algrove, you are the one that started the off-topice discussion, but when someone responds to it then you move it (but not all of it, cleaver you) to the Barnacks Bar where I'm sure the America bashing will start once again. The bar is a completely biased, foul, prejudiced portion of this wonderful forum which I encourage members to NOT participate in. Cheers, I'm taking a break from you for a while. Enjoy your bully pulpit... Absolute nonsense. There is no rule in the forum that does not apply to mods. If we go OT we move to the Bar like any other member is moved. USA bashing is not allowed anywhere on the forum any more than any other bashing. If you have a problem with a post use the warning triangle on the left. Just to make you happy I moved the post that started the OT part (not by me btw) into the Bar thread as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted June 16, 2013 Author Share #156 Posted June 16, 2013 Why so? First orders are served first hopefully. Why so? What does "first orders" mean to Leica where dealers are concerned? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 16, 2013 Share #157 Posted June 16, 2013 Why so? What does "first orders" mean to Leica where dealers are concerned? Fist orders from dealers of course. Leica don't know those from the customers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted June 16, 2013 Author Share #158 Posted June 16, 2013 Fist orders from dealers of course. Leica don't know those from the customers. So you're saying that dealers rush to get orders in and Leica prioritizes who receives product according to that order date? Somehow I have a hard time believing that B&H, Tamarkin and Dale Camera and other US dealers didn't place large orders at the first possible opportunity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 16, 2013 Share #159 Posted June 16, 2013 I don't know whom did what amongst dealers but this explains why some dealers have received more bodies than others and why some of them have never seen one so far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted June 16, 2013 Share #160 Posted June 16, 2013 So you're saying that dealers rush to get orders in and Leica prioritizes who receives product according to that order date? Somehow I have a hard time believing that B&H, Tamarkin and Dale Camera and other US dealers didn't place large orders at the first possible opportunity. Stephen-I think you are right about prioritizing, but I sometimes wonder if it's by order date or something else like recent sales or orders. I seem to notice a steady stream of customers who are not getting M's out of B&H. Is this Leica's way of leveling the playing field since most dealers look carefully at what B&H is doing. Dale seemed to get plenty, but theirs dried up after the lug issue. The Pro Shop had the same thing happen after the lug issue surfaced. Ken was down here most of the Winter and he must have been shorted due to lug concerns too. The Leica store in Wash DC had their orders stopped due to the lug issue. So I ask-Why did the lug issue stop all production for so long? What they only have 3-4 people who assemble M's in Solms who had to be shifted over to repairing our M's? Heard it might have been a torque wrench that was mis-functioning. Maybe it took them a long time to figure out which wrench and longer to get a replacement. But then why did not MM and M-E's have the same issue as they use the same lug? Oh, now there are shortages of the M-E at some dealers whose M-E orders are not being filled. And the saga continues. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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