lct Posted June 15, 2013 Share #121 Posted June 15, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) ...Just curious...are you keeping your M8.2? If so, as back-up, or does it do anything better than your new M?... I keep the M8.2 as back-up but also for it's own qualities, mainly its crop factor which allows me to use my favorite 35mm lenses as standard ones and my 50s as 70s in a smaller package. Let alone the pleasure to use the tiny 90/4 macro like a 135mm lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 15, 2013 Posted June 15, 2013 Hi lct, Take a look here Production Issues with M240?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
algrove Posted June 15, 2013 Share #122 Posted June 15, 2013 I don't think so. As of today, they did get away with it since their 2 stores in Florida are still operating. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted June 15, 2013 Share #123 Posted June 15, 2013 As of today, they did get away with it since their 2 stores in Florida are still operating. Please read David's post on this forum how they responded to the criticism from the LUF. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Chen Posted June 15, 2013 Share #124 Posted June 15, 2013 Why? Why not just use your M9 until your M is delivered? Mark Mark, I always like the new stuff in photography, including a creative human-machine interface. Buying a Pentax K5 IIs doesn't suggest that I cancel the order of M240. Best Regards, Thomas Chen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted June 15, 2013 Share #125 Posted June 15, 2013 Mark, I always like the new stuff in photography, including a creative human-machine interface. Buying a Pentax K5 IIs doesn't suggest that I cancel the order of M240. Best Regards, Thomas Chen I hear the Pentax K5 IIs is quite a capable camera. There seem to be some Leica users on Getdpi that really enjoy that camera as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Chen Posted June 15, 2013 Share #126 Posted June 15, 2013 I hear the Pentax K5 IIs is quite a capable camera.There seem to be some Leica users on Getdpi that really enjoy that camera as well. I have no idea now. Perhaps some days after M240's arrival, I can buy a Leitax adapter for R APO 100/2.8 to compare their performance, given K5 IIs is not a FF camera. Thomas Chen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante Posted June 15, 2013 Share #127 Posted June 15, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Wouldn't work. Most dealers here refuse to take deposits and most customers would refuse to pay them. I wouldn't bet against it - a $1,000 deposit is less than a day's take-home pay for a good piece of Leica's target market. I think you'd find that a lot of people would pay early (note: not pay additionally) avoid a 6-18 month wait. Also, on the issue of production tracking, BMW had that with the X3: BMW lets buyers watch their custom X3 being born | The Car Tech blog - CNET Reviews And Jaap, why is the Outlander a € 55K item? Taxes? Dante Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted June 15, 2013 Share #128 Posted June 15, 2013 Please read David's post on this forum how they responded to the criticism from the LUF. Hey, Having spent many days with David on more than one occasion , I know him well. I respect his views. My post was in response to someone who said anyone crossing Leica as far as pricing goes would/could loose their franchise. It was a simple lapse in judgement from the git-go. Hindsight was perfect, foresight was not even close. Having just opened the Miami store which I was invited to prior to opening and having had Leica products for many, many years in their Ft. Lauderdale store, Leica let them get away with it. Sure all parties realized there was a lapse in judgement. To save face they donated the excess. But what does the person who purchased that camera feel? Put yourself in his shoes and see how happy you are when you realize you overpaid equal to the price of an NEX whatever. You can't even get the tax deduction for the donation. While all the LUF blow up was going on, I bought a second M in same condition as the famous $8200 one for $6600 at a Leica store. That's the price Dale should have made from the beginning. They admit it, but they did go against Leica pricing policies as there are established discounts for such bodies as more than one dealer has told me face to face. If you have a Leica dealer you talk to regularly and you buy product from, ask him his pricing for refurbished models. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 15, 2013 Share #129 Posted June 15, 2013 Congratulations for being one of the lucky ones to get your hands on a M240. And good to know that they don't have any 'real' problems. I suppose you are right - one of the best established Leica dealers in Germany must be wrong. The reality of this is that most of the people behind the counter at these stores can't afford a current Leica. The M has been released in such small quantities that some/most dealers don't even have one in the case to play with. Those that do, probably don't have one themselves. So, yes, most/all dealers should not have any real experience with the camera. Again, this camera may have a few firmware updates to come, but it really doesn't have any real problems - I use it everyday and it seems like a mature camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl G Posted June 15, 2013 Share #130 Posted June 15, 2013 While all the LUF blow up was going on, I bought a second M in same condition as the famous $8200 one for $6600 at a Leica store. My experience exactly. Camera essentially was indistinguishable from new, came with a one year warranty, and did not need a lug repair. I was offered a place essentially number one on the list for a certified preowned, and would have waited months, perhaps up to 8 to 10 if deliveries of new units continue at a similar pace. I particularly appreciated the offer, the reasonable standard pricing, the quick fulfillment and the business model. Not referencing dfarkus, as an explanation was offered and made but in referencing the cameras that have been offered on eBay when there is high demand and low supply as the song by Glen Frey goes: There's lots of shady characters, lots of dirty dealsIt's the lure of easy money, it's got a very strong appeal Regarding the conspiracy theories on the delays in production, Leica's explanation is reasonable especially in light of dual production of the X Vario. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tanks Posted June 15, 2013 Share #131 Posted June 15, 2013 Such move would conflict with antitrust legislations. Regards Steve You are wrong in that. In a lot of cases the manufacturer sets the retail price, and includes provisions in a dealer's contract that if they sell for a different price they will pull the dealership. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 15, 2013 Share #132 Posted June 15, 2013 "There's lots of shady characters, lots of dirty deals It's the lure of easy money, it's got a very strong appeal" Got to love those guys!!! Glad you got a camera - you are going to love it, if you don't already. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl G Posted June 15, 2013 Share #133 Posted June 15, 2013 Rick, I love it already, after 2 days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted June 15, 2013 Share #134 Posted June 15, 2013 Rick, I love it already, after 2 days. Karl- Wise move to get the CPO. Mine is like brand new, no different than my original one. Have fun with it. Should be many nice opportunities to use it around all those beautiful lakes, especially if the weather has improved from last weekend's torrential stuff at Watkins Glen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 15, 2013 Share #135 Posted June 15, 2013 Lou and Karl, My introduction to Leica was in 2007 with a refurb. M8. I bought it from Tony at PopFlash. He sold it to me with a refurb. 28Cron. I went to a local display from a local rep. who was showing the Leica lens catalog the first weekend I got it. The Rep thought I might have been sold a gray-market camera and lens. Monday morning I called Tony, whom I had dealt with before and had nothing but great experiences, and asked what was up. He told me to hang on he'd call me back. About an hour later my staff asks me if I want to take a call from a Mr. Roger Horn, President of Leica North America. He tells me the camera is a legitimate refurb. and expresses his apologies and offers to send me a check for $500 and a coupon for 30% off of a new lens for the inappropriate way I was introduced to Leica... Got off the phone and called Tony back and bought my 50Lux at 30% off plus $500! And, it was a discounted refurbished lens from a Leica rep. kit. That had to be the best deal I ever made on a Leica lens! That is one reason I believe Leica stands behind their customers! I'd buy a refurbished camera in a heartbeat. My M8 was a great camera, more or less. Rick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 15, 2013 Share #136 Posted June 15, 2013 I wouldn't bet against it - a $1,000 deposit is less than a day's take-home pay for a good piece of Leica's target market. I think you'd find that a lot of people would pay early (note: not pay additionally) avoid a 6-18 month wait. Also, on the issue of production tracking, BMW had that with the X3: BMW lets buyers watch their custom X3 being born | The Car Tech blog - CNET Reviews And Jaap, why is the Outlander a € 55K item? Taxes? Dante No, the 20% special tax we usually have on cars is not levied on this model, only VAT. It is the PHEV Inline+. It is nearly twice the price of the simplest model. That is 46.000 Euro before taxes. Add 21 % for the VAT It is not as bad as it seems. The car is so heavily subsidized by tax relief that it will have cost me 10k Euro net in three years time. About the deposit - it is not the amount, but the mental resistance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted June 15, 2013 Share #137 Posted June 15, 2013 Rick That is truly a great story. My only Roger Horn story was a the bar in the Dorint Hotel across the street from Photokina last September. Turns out I am having drinks with some Leica technicians and up walks this guy. He's speaking English. We introduce ourselves and he then says, "I left your tickets at the front desk for you and your wife for Photokina. Enjoy the show" Small things add up to big dividends. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl G Posted June 15, 2013 Share #138 Posted June 15, 2013 Rick, Great story. Karl- Wise move to get the CPO. Mine is like brand new, no different than my original one. Have fun with it. Should be many nice opportunities to use it around all those beautiful lakes, especially if the weather has improved from last weekend's torrential stuff at Watkins Glen. Thanks, I will. June is shaping up to be way above average rainfall here but last weekend wasn't a total washout and I took some pictures of Hector Falls, just north of Watkins. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/nature-wildlife/288120-hector-falls.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 15, 2013 Share #139 Posted June 15, 2013 Lou, my best Roger Horn story takes place after we had chatted on the phone about my camera and Leica in general. As we were jockeying to get off the the phone with each other I asked, "Could I assume that I should be buying lenses of focal lengths that would anticipate a FF M9?" He said, "quite rightly." As the line goes, he (Leica) had me at hello. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted June 15, 2013 Share #140 Posted June 15, 2013 Rick-So after that call how long did it take you to place an order for your M9? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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