StephenPatterson Posted June 13, 2013 Share #1 Posted June 13, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I've heard rumblings for some time now that there must be production issues with the M240 outside of the lug recall. From a practical standpoint it seems very strange that Leica can ship hundreds, perhaps even thousands, of X Vario cameras in such a short time when the M240s are barely trickling out of the factory. Considering that both of these cameras are "Made in Germany", and that both likely have significant sub assembly performed in Portugal, the discrepancy in volumes seems very strange. It's true that the M240 has the additional production burden of the rangefinder, but it isn't as if Leica has just started building this essential component or lacks experience in alignment and calibration. Actually I would not be surprised if the X Vario has a more extensive Bill Of Materials and many additional production and QA steps, considering the addition of the AF lens. Perhaps Leica's sensor partner CMOSIS is struggling a bit with the new design? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 13, 2013 Posted June 13, 2013 Hi StephenPatterson, Take a look here Production Issues with M240?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted June 13, 2013 Share #2 Posted June 13, 2013 Actually since a few weeks thee seems to be a steady trickle of Ms coming from Solms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted June 13, 2013 Share #3 Posted June 13, 2013 I believe the word "trickle" is what Stephen is referring to here. Maybe the 4444xxx serial number has something to do with it as Jono said his Asian friends might comment on with vigor. Unlucky? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted June 13, 2013 Share #4 Posted June 13, 2013 There may have been a trickle but to continue the watery theme, what's actually required is a steady stream if not a raging torrent. The assumption was that cameras were being made throughout the winter and that all that was required was a final firmware load and a wipe-down ready to meet the initial demand. As it turns out, the production numbers seem to be tiny (though of course we have no information) and you do wonder if there's a yield problem fabricating the new sensor. Impossible to know, but their inability to meet even the initial demand, never mind fulfil orders placed later does indicate a serious problem somewhere - they would hardly create this level of supply constraint by design. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted June 13, 2013 Author Share #5 Posted June 13, 2013 I am also disheartened to hear several members here reporting that dealers are telling them when ordering M240s that it will be anywhere from six to eight months before they can expect to receive a camera. This tells me that at least some dealers feel the problems with production and delivery will not be solved in the short term. One dealer I have talked with was told by Leica not to expect the situation to change anytime soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted June 13, 2013 Author Share #6 Posted June 13, 2013 It's also interesting that members are reporting purchasing factory remanufactured M240 cameras. This would lead me to believe that M240 production is not at present constrained by labor issues, as these cameras would certainly not take be coming to market so quickly if the production lines were jammed with new product. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted June 13, 2013 Share #7 Posted June 13, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) a steady trickle indeed.... My local authorised Leica dealer (the only dealer in my city of 1.4 million odd souls) has had exactly one trickle in. They expect another 2 to trickle in some time this year. They have more than 12 on order... They have had an ME sitting on the shelf for the last 4 months... it is 'stagnating' on the shelf... I am somewhat glad to be honest- I don't need it yet - M9-P will do me for now- and I will wait until time has tested the model- wrinkles (if any) have been ironed- and hopefully the price has come down. Maybe the next model will be announced before this one becomes available? But once again Leica amazes with their trickle down policies... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfunnell Posted June 13, 2013 Share #8 Posted June 13, 2013 This sounds like you could be onto something. I am surprised that supply is so constrained considering the time since announcement at Photokina is almost one year . And yes the new model could well be announced by this time next year. Perhaps an M240P with AWB improvements and who know what other extras worth the wait, in the mean time I am having a lot of fun with my new MM. Something good is worth waiting for Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted June 13, 2013 Share #9 Posted June 13, 2013 Whatever it is, it is not good (news) so does that mean it's worth waiting for? That said I must say I am pleased with what I see so far with my mine. Perhaps they have found a production glitch that is quietly being fixed with the lug nut bodies which requires a re-engineering/re-ordering/re-production process to complete. All our comments are complete conjecture of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted June 13, 2013 Share #10 Posted June 13, 2013 Interesting thoughts from everyone. There's definitely a problem somewhere in the production line. Hmmmmmmm........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Woods Posted June 13, 2013 Share #11 Posted June 13, 2013 Like most of you here, I'm waiting too. Just found this on a UK dealer's site .... Solms, June 10 2013 Prescribed wording regarding delivery bottlenecks for the Leica M-System Since its presentation at the photokina 2012, the new Leica M has become extremely popular. The large number of orders we have received shows the outstanding acceptance of the new M-System on the market. The enormous demand has by far exceeded our expectations, with the consequence that delays in deliveries can unfortunately not be avoided. In the words of Markus Limberger, COO at Leica Camera AG: ‘We are very sorry about these delays and hope you will understand the current situation. Please rest assured that we are investing an enormous amount of time and effort in the sustainable expansion of our production capacities, naturally in full compliance with our commitment to absolute quality. Despite the very high demand, particularly of the Leica M, the quality of our products and the high-precision in our production maintains our high standard. ’ A significant cause for the longer waiting times is Leica’s uncompromising manufacturing process in accordance with the ‘factory’ principle. Just like all other Leica products, the Leica M is manufactured and assembled in an elaborate manual process that must satisfy the most stringent demands on precision engineering, painstaking care and quality. Each Leica M is a handcrafted product in every detail and may only leave the factory after being tested, checked and adjusted for so long until its flawless finish and performance are guaranteed and fulfil the exhaustive quality demands on which the worldwide reputation of Leica is founded. This commitment to precision and quality has been the the core principle of Leica manufacturing for almost a century. The endurance, reliability and perceived value of Leica products have been instrumental in the creation of the Leica legend. To ensure that we can continue to maintain these uncompromising quality standards and simultaneously reduce order-fulfilment times, Leica Camera AG is currently significantly expanding production capacities, creating job opportunities for additional specialists and trainees, and is building a completely new, ultra-modern factory that will open in Wetzlar in 2014 with facilities to satisfy production demand. The sum total of these measures will relieve pressures in the production process and simultaneously lead to considerably shorter order-fulfilment times. Stephens Photo Centre No relationship to this company, just passing on info, such as it is! Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted June 13, 2013 Share #12 Posted June 13, 2013 One of the most pointless things we, as customers, could do is speculating about Leica Camera's possible "production issues." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted June 13, 2013 Share #13 Posted June 13, 2013 I have expressed before that some kind of production issue got to be what limits Leica's ability to deliver a steady stream of M240s. And the really new component in that camera is the sensor. So, I wonder what's going on? No doubt, Leica and the dealer network are hurting. This is not good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted June 13, 2013 Author Share #14 Posted June 13, 2013 One of the most pointless things we, as customers, could do is speculating about Leica Camera's possible "production issues." Seriously? As a customer I want as much information as possible concerning the equipment I buy from Leica and it's suitability for use in the field. For instance the sensor cracking issue on the M9 was a huge issue for me, not because Leica wouldn't stand up and fix the problem, but because of significant potential down time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jager Posted June 13, 2013 Share #15 Posted June 13, 2013 There certainly seemed to be a 4-6 week period where camera shipments seemed to cease altogether. Since that seemed to align with the discovery of the lug problem, one wonders if there was a connection. Leica's statement that that problem would not affect production certainly seems suspect. Something caused the apparent drop-off. That said, empirical evidence the last few weeks would suggest that the camera is once again shipping normally. 'Normally' meaning Leica's usual 50 units per day, or thereabouts. The notion that Leica could ever turn that relative trickle into a torrent begs other questions. Not likely to happen. As for dealers indicating it will be "x months" for delivery - they're just guessing. No one outside Solms and (perhaps) New Jersey have any true insight into future delivery schedules and timelines. Even the Leica stores themselves do not receive more than a couple days notice. Given that, I'd take dealer prognostications with a very large grain of salt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted June 13, 2013 Author Share #16 Posted June 13, 2013 Like most of you here, I'm waiting too. Just found this on a UK dealer's site .... Solms, June 10 2013 Prescribed wording regarding delivery bottlenecks for the Leica M-System Prescribed wording. Script. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted June 13, 2013 Share #17 Posted June 13, 2013 A trickle is the overstatement of the day...its more like drip-feeding the customer base. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stef63 Posted June 13, 2013 Share #18 Posted June 13, 2013 There are just over 600 Leica M dealers worldwide (according to Leica's website). At the production pace of the M9-P of over 100 bodies per workday every dealer should get an M every six workdays... Or at 25% of this production capacity and supposing they started building them beginning this year that would mean an average of 5 per dealer. My dealer has got 1 body two months ago.... I know that these are all assumptions, but it is clear Leica is not producing M's at the moment at the same production rate as the previous model. If this lower production pace was in their roadmap, we can only guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted June 13, 2013 Share #19 Posted June 13, 2013 To ensure that we can continue to maintain these uncompromising quality standards and simultaneously reduce order-fulfilment times, Leica Camera AG is currently significantly expanding production capacities, creating job opportunities for additional specialists and trainees, and is building a completely new, ultra-modern factory that will open in Wetzlar in 2014 with facilities to satisfy production demand. The sum total of these measures will relieve pressures in the production process and simultaneously lead to considerably shorter order-fulfilment times. Nice try by Leica. One little thing. The camera is likely not made in Solms, it's likely made in Portugal which is why they bussed a bunch of people over from there to Solms to assist with the lug problem in the Service Department. The fact there's a new plant been built in Wetzlar can only relieve the bottleneck if the throughput of the small amount of work done in Germany can be speeded up. If that is not going to happen to 2014, a number of propective customers will have abandoned ship and the mid-life upgrade will be on the horizon for Photokina 2014 anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stef63 Posted June 13, 2013 Share #20 Posted June 13, 2013 In fact if you look at the dealership map there are over 2000 dealers worldwide ..... but 1500 of these are in Europe..... But not all of them are M dealers. There are only a little over 600 of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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