Mini M? [MERGED] AKA X-Vario

[63strat]

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Leica is clearly just nicknaming all these cameras as different breeds of M devices. They will not call this new camera a Mini M; it's simply to show its position in the lineup while having a little fun at the same time. So my take is not to infer this new camera will use M lenses. I don't think it will. It'd spike the price of the camera too much to market it for use with pricey M lenses. Plus it'd undercut the M240. My guess is there'll be a few new lens choices rather than a fixed. All I know is I'm looking forward to it.

 

But what do I know?

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[Lee Martin]

I'm hoping for a Mini MM. An X2 for B&W-only users.

 

I put this option forward early on in the running, I honestly think its possible, it's the only section of the market where they have no competition at all with a proven demand and have already spent a lot of money on research and development. Put a 35 F2 on the front of the full frame sensor and a built in high quality viewfinder, so as to show up Sony's shortfall . Engineer it beautifully and you've captured an interesting part of the market which I'm sure they want. Unless its something unique the other manufacturers are so close if not ahead technically , you would have to question why you would pay multiples of their prices for a similar offering with the red dot.

[jpattison]

you would have to question why you would pay multiples of their prices for a similar offering with the red dot.

 

 

But people have done just that for years!

 

John

[countrad]

my guess is a FF compact like the Sony RX1 with a more stylish housing,

but lower quality display and about twice the price.

[Lee Martin]

my guess is a FF compact like the Sony RX1 with a more stylish housing,

but lower quality display and about twice the price.

 

 

I agree , but they can't go lower quality in any area at all, it's going to be at least as expensive and it's following the Sony , so no excuses for lagging behind at all. But the spec I agree with, but at the risk of repetition I think it could be a "Monochrom" version . No competition unique job done !! But if it's twice the price of the RX1 it's as expensive as an M , so that's a non starter

[Rolo]

At Leica M refers to:

 

Rangefinder OR Monochrom. MM we know means rangefinder Monochrom.

 

So is this single M, a new film, or digital, rangefinder ?? I think not. Therefore logically the other M.

[TW528]

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At Leica M refers to:

 

Rangefinder OR Monochrom. MM we know means rangefinder Monochrom.

 

So is this single M, a new film, or digital, rangefinder ?? I think not. Therefore logically the other M.

 

At Leica M refers to Marketing. They refer to the X2 as the micro M and the D-Lux 6 as the nano M so it really could be anything.

[TW528]

I'd like to see a high-end mirrorless with a new line of autofocus M lenses. Same mount so it would be compatible with existing manual focus M lenses but with extra contacts for the new autofocus line. I wouldn't mind a Leica version of the Sony RX-1 either but they have been hinting at a camera between the X2 and M for years so whatever it is it's probably been in development for quite a while. The concept predates the RX-1 and maybe even the Fuji x100.

 

I have a feeling it's just going to be a zoom version of the X2 though, probably with the same low-res LCD display. As excited as I am I have to remind myself that this is Leica.

[pico]

The new mini could be the model I pictured which also accepts the M240 grip to expand consumption into deeper use as an option. Think remote, Bluetooth, scientific, forensics, time lapse and other UNATTENDED applications .

 

Damn, do I win anything if I am right?

[CaptZoom]

It occurred to me that M. Riechman of LuLa may know what's coming, hence his decision not to purchase a M240.

[NZDavid]

I'd like to see a high-end mirrorless with a new line of autofocus M lenses. Same mount so it would be compatible with existing manual focus M lenses but with extra contacts for the new autofocus line. I wouldn't mind a Leica version of the Sony RX-1 either but they have been hinting at a camera between the X2 and M for years so whatever it is it's probably been in development for quite a while. The concept predates the RX-1 and maybe even the Fuji x100.

 

I have a feeling it's just going to be a zoom version of the X2 though, probably with the same low-res LCD display. As excited as I am I have to remind myself that this is Leica.

 

Quite possibly. An X3 with a zoom. But not "just" a zoom, a 24-90 like the D-Lux would be very useful! The camera would have a larger sensor (probably APS) and proper camera controls like aperture ring, shutter dial, and even a manual zoom ring. A bit like the original and highly popular Digilux 2.

 

M has also stood for "Mechanical" as in "Mechanical Perfection". The original MP, I think, was simply M (Messsucher) Professional.

 

In this case, I think Leica is teasing with Mini M. It could also stand for Millennial. Trendy generation M offspring of the original early Baby Boomer generation M. Time magazine labels the Millennials the Me Me Me Generation. (M3?) Ms are reputedly obsessed with money, are mobile maniacs, obsessed with social media, and they are awfully impatient. Even more M words...

[colonel]

Let me just say what it definitely won't be:

1. B&W sensor - it is clear from Leica interviews on this that it will be mass market (in Leica terms)

2. Fixed prime lens - They have the X2 for APS-C and there is no way they would go head on with the RX1, which is pretty much as good as you can get.

 

As I said before, this is either a fixed zoom lens APS-C, which only competes with the Canon G1X or an interchangeable lens

 

If its an interchangeable lens, Leica is not big enough to run 3 different mounts, so it will have to be based off the M. The only slight outsider is being based off the R.

I suspect it will be APS-C or bigger. They will sell loads if it is FF and possibly APS-H.

Lastly, I doubt very much it will have a RF. But if it does, it would be a major USP.

 

Look at it this way, Mini CL size, FF with M mount and RF and also new type of M mount AF lens would sell like wildfire. Even if you take the RF off it will sell like wildfire

[dhcy]

What if what they are releasing is actually the first "real" M-E?

 

To me it seems like the M-E was just an excuse for Leica to position two classes of M cameras in their lineup. The current version is really just a minor change from the M9, seemingly made to reduce their inventory of stock of M9 components.

[Anthony Flores]

FF is extremely hot right now, look at the buzz over the RX1 and their intention to move more of their cameras to that format...

 

Many photobloggers brag about being able to get "leica like" images on the RX1, for about one third the price of the M and a Summicron lens. I'm sure it's hurt them, even I was on a list for the new M and will be getting off it as I was considering the RX1 before hearing of this announcement... now I will wait.

 

Everyone talks about Leica not wanting to cannibalize M or M lens sales, but it's a small market that Leica can't even keep up with now!

 

A FF Leica compact with fixed Summicron with a built in EVF for 4k, would sell very well... only about 7OO more [once you factor extra cost of Sony's EVF] for the "Leica tax" is small. With better aesthetics and no need for the ugly add on EVF would make it very desirable...

 

What's more, this would open up a whole new market for Leica. There's a much bigger market of serious photgraphers or hobbyists who want something small, yet no compromise in quality. Those people will pay in the 3 to 4.5k range, and they are NOT customers for the Leica M line... nor are they interested in the disappointing X2.

 

Maybe it's wishful thinking, but a FF compact with 35mm Summicron or Summilux, that looks beautiful, performs equal or better to the RX1 and has a built in EVF is my dream camera... and I don't think I'm alone.

 

Forking over a little more for than vs the RX1, or vs ten grand for the M body and lens is something I'd happily do.

[Anthony Flores]

I will add that I was considering the new M and a 5Omm summilux and willing to endure the pain of scraping together 11k + tax. But the Sony kinda killed that... sure, I know it's not the same thing... but as great as the Sony does for 3k, makes the Leica investment very hard.

 

I'm sure I'm not alone. So now, I'm in the boat of either, get the RX1, or whatever Leica releases next.

 

My biggest issue with the RX1 is lack of built in EVF and having to use that ugly, monstrosity on top. Seems that's almost everyone's biggest complaint.

 

So if Leica can produce similar or better quality images, in a better looking body, with Leica lens performance and is "only" about 1k more, I'd be all over it.

[IkarusJohn]

Quite possibly. An X3 with a zoom. But not "just" a zoom, a 24-90 like the D-Lux would be very useful! The camera would have a larger sensor (probably APS) and proper camera controls like aperture ring, shutter dial, and even a manual zoom ring. A bit like the original and highly popular Digilux 2.

 

If its anything like this, I'll cancel my order!

 

I think the Colonel is right. This is a Made by Leica in Germany camera, apparently, so forget about anything that looks like a Japanese collaboration.

 

What are Leica's strengths - a new CMOSIS sensor and the fast processor (all lifted straight from the M(240)). Their best lenses are M mount - they won't make a mount on this camera for lenses they don't make any more (forget R mount lenses, though an adapter is already available). AF is something they acknowledge they need to consider.

 

So a slimmed down, simplified M based camera using existing technologies makes perfect sense. Not sure it does to Leica, though ...

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[earleygallery]

I predict that there will be a lot of disappointed punters on this forum come the reveal.

[AlanG]

Leica already makes several M models... certainly enough to satisfy demand. If they wish to expand they'll have to develop new models that will be more popular.

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[earful]

guess you have to ask where the market is for yet another leica branded camera. i too think the answer is an ff take me anywhere camera, but going head to head with the rx1 is not a guaranteed win. the zeiss on the rx1 has gotten accolades putting it in leica territory. the rx1 files are, to put it mildly, sumptuous. and it has af. i have an m9, x1 and dlux4. bought an rx1 and the m9 has since been taking a long rest. no plans to buy another leica.

 

a leica for the masses? that would have been more like the x1 or the panaleicas. nothing new there. but what about a leica that can tap into the market sony has tapped into of higher end dslr owners looking for that take me anywhere camera? yes, i suspect that's a fairly large market that has the income to support a leica purchase. but just because someone owns a more expensive dslr kit does not mean someone will buy a leica over a sony - not with the rx1 out there. nor does it mean someone would be willing to move into buying leica lenses for a smaller interchangeable lens camera. might just be creating a market for voigtlander lenses, actually. so if leica is serious, then it wlll have to offer something not just meant to be competitive, but also unique. could be interesting times. i hope so.

[colonel]

Many photobloggers brag about being able to get "leica like" images on the RX1, for about one third the price of the M and a Summicron lens. I'm sure it's hurt them, even I was on a list for the new M and will be getting off it as I was considering the RX1 before hearing of this announcement... now I will wait.

 

A FF Leica compact with fixed Summicron with a built in EVF for 4k, would sell very well... only about 7OO more [once you factor extra cost of Sony's EVF] for the "Leica tax" is small. With better aesthetics and no need for the ugly add on EVF would make it very desirable...

 

What's more, this would open up a whole new market for Leica. There's a much bigger market of serious photgraphers or hobbyists who want something small, yet no compromise in quality. Those people will pay in the 3 to 4.5k range, and they are NOT customers for the Leica M line... nor are they interested in the disappointing X2.

 

Maybe it's wishful thinking, but a FF compact with 35mm Summicron or Summilux, that looks beautiful, performs equal or better to the RX1 and has a built in EVF is my dream camera... and I don't think I'm alone.

 

Forking over a little more for than vs the RX1, or vs ten grand for the M body and lens is something I'd happily do.

 

Firstly they started designing this long before the RX1 was released

Secondly, no one in their right mind would pay more for something that will be no better then the Sony RX1

Thirdly, an inbuilt EVF would make the RX1 much bigger. The add on EVF is genius. You can have a tiny unobtrusive compact or a sophisticated EVF. Sony never wanted to compete with the X100, it was making something quite unique.