Mini M? [MERGED] AKA X-Vario

[Guest SUMOLUX]

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Two reasons I think the picture and the documentation in the above link may be faked :

 

1. In the documentation taken from the iPad screen, there is a spelling error : 'gamme de produit' should be written 'gamme de produits' - it could be a draft document - but I doubt it;

 

2. In the description of the sensor, they mention '16.1 Million de pixels' - Millions should not be with a capital 'M' - and leica often refers, in its French documentation to 'MP' or 'megapixels'

 

Only time will tell

 

Whatever will be, will be.

But what I find funny is that this French based leak was barely covered in France. And it was supposed to have come from an online French magazine somewhere, if I understood correctly? Whatever the case the 'seed' was planted quite clearly indeed.

[captain]

Im a bit perplexed at all the raves and desire for a Leica equivalent of the Sony RX1? For me the benefits of a full frame sensor is to bring equivalence and complete use of the full frame lenses we would like to use on it. But if its fixed lens I dont really see much advantage for the mammoth price difference to a APS sensor high end compact. With the reviews I have seen this Sony Zeiss lens is good in comparison to alot of the others in their range but it really isnt the all out Zeiss quality we see out of Germany and Contax and Cosina Zeiss. The Fuji lenses are more than a match for this lens so if a fixed lens compact is what your after then they represent far better value. Its true the full frame sensor in the RX1 represents an achievement that brings hope of the possibility of a interchangeable lens version but as a camera in itself I think a Fuji X-E1 with their 35mm f1.4 at less than half the cost would be the way to go and you still have the ability for other lenses. Ive probably just poured petrol on myself so flame away if im missing something with the RX1.

[colonel]

Im a bit perplexed at all the raves and desire for a Leica equivalent of the Sony RX1? For me the benefits of a full frame sensor is to bring equivalence and complete use of the full frame lenses we would like to use on it. But if its fixed lens I dont really see much advantage for the mammoth price difference to a APS sensor high end compact. With the reviews I have seen this Sony Zeiss lens is good in comparison to alot of the others in their range but it really isnt the all out Zeiss quality we see out of Germany and Contax and Cosina Zeiss. The Fuji lenses are more than a match for this lens so if a fixed lens compact is what your after then they represent far better value. Its true the full frame sensor in the RX1 represents an achievement that brings hope of the possibility of a interchangeable lens version but as a camera in itself I think a Fuji X-E1 with their 35mm f1.4 at less than half the cost would be the way to go and you still have the ability for other lenses. Ive probably just poured petrol on myself so flame away if im missing something with the RX1.

 

I have the X-E1 with 35m as well as the RX1

 

The RX1 lens is better. The sheer detail of the RX1 floors the X-E1.

however fuji colours are nicer out of the box. In fact fuji colours are the nicest I have seen on the market full stop.

 

The RX1 is also appreciably smaller then the X-E1 + lens

 

FYI I actually use both. The RX1 is my goto camera most of the time.

 

although having loads of fun with a Panasonic TZ40 at the moment

[colonel]

Feel like want to be part of the discussion. By logic (my 2 cents), Mini M would be RX1 version with interchangeble lens. Reasons -

1. Leica should not give up M advantages, i.e. quality and simplicity;

2. Should be able to use its state of art M lenses that distance themselves from other brands;

3. Price of M240/M9 is out of reach for many photographers. With introduction of Mini, Leica certainly will improve its share of market while not compromising lens sale. In fact, it will be in positive way for lens.

 

whoever does that (i.e. interchangeable lens RX1) with AF and at the same size, IQ and build quality will clean up the high end amateur market!

 

issues:

1. the cost will probably be closer to the M240 then the RX1, for Leica or Sony

2. is this a bit outside of our technology capabilities at the moment ?

3. not to mention physics ....

[captain]

I have the X-E1 with 35m as well as the RX1

 

The RX1 lens is better. The sheer detail of the RX1 floors the X-E1.

however fuji colours are nicer out of the box. In fact fuji colours are the nicest I have seen on the market full stop.

 

The RX1 is also appreciably smaller then the X-E1 + lens

 

FYI I actually use both. The RX1 is my goto camera most of the time.

 

although having loads of fun with a Panasonic TZ40 at the moment

 

Interesting, it would be great to se a pic of them side by side, I hadn't thought of the RX1 being that much smaller to make any difference. Certainly with the EVF attached. I have heard nothing but good things about the 35 f1.4 Fuji lens with some claiming its close to a Summilux and the results I have seen I wouldnt doubt that. Maybe its the notable jump in mp then that gives the RX1 that advantage you mention rather than the lens itself. The Fuji lens does have an extra stop advantage though and is said to be one of the better lenses in the Fuji line.

[jaapv]

The RX1 lens appears better than it is because it is fully integrated in the camera, both optically and electronically. The firmware is geared towards this one lens making all corrections more precise, the sensor and lens are designed as one unit, allowing an optimal compensation of aberrations. The end result is a very good image quality, but it makes the discussion whether this is a "better" lens somewhat difficult, if not impossible and certainly moot.

[pico]

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The RX1 lens appears better than it is [...]

 

Let us think about that some more.

[ErikP]

Well the 6-bit code is used for the M to be able to compensate for different issues? That must be a comparable situation.

[colonel]

I have heard nothing but good things about the 35 f1.4 Fuji lens with some claiming its close to a Summilux and the results I have seen I wouldnt doubt that.

 

The Fuji 35mm is a wonderful lens.

But IMHO its not a 50mm f1.4 summilux which remains my favourite 50mm lens ever (not having the money to use or test a noctilux that is)

The key difference is clarity at f1.4. There is nothing like the summilux in this respect. Also the corners on the Leica are better,

At f1.4 the Fuji is "zeiss sonnar classic" sharp in the middle (if you know what I mean) but soft compared to the summilux.

f2 improves and f2.8 is a big jump

At f4 the Fuji is tack.

 

My summilux copy was pretty much tack in the middle from f2 and not far off at f1.4.

 

This is my copy of both lenses of course, others may have different mileage.

 

In terms of Nikon f1.4 50mm, my fuji floors it in quality. However the Canon f1.2, although not super sharp in the middle at f1.2, has bags of character and remains tied with the Fuji as my favourite non-Leica 50mm.

 

this is an example at f1.4 on the Fuji. Pretty good, but not summilux. Of course at this resolution you can't really see:

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[jaapv]

Well the 6-bit code is used for the M to be able to compensate for different issues? That must be a comparable situation.

Not quite, as the sensor and microlenses must accomodate for a range of lenses with different incidence angles. With the RX1 the whole chain can be optimized, from vignetting and CA correction to distortion and color transmission and the lens design can be adapted to the optimal software correction.

[1JB]

I haven't read all 54 pages of posts so it's probably been said already. It's going to be a new X with a slow zoom and crop sensor.

[ErikP]

Not quite, as the sensor and microlenses must accomodate for a range of lenses with different incidence angles. With the RX1 the whole chain can be optimized, from vignetting and CA correction to distortion and color transmission and the lens design can be adapted to the optimal software correction.

 

Your right - it must be much easier to find one optimal solution instead of many lenses.

[viramati]

I haven't read all 54 pages of posts so it's probably been said already. It's going to be a new X with a slow zoom and crop sensor.

 

I believe you to be 100% right or so a source tells me

[ErikP]

 

I believe you to be 100% right or so a source tells me

 

That hurts ;-)

[douglasf13]

Im a bit perplexed at all the raves and desire for a Leica equivalent of the Sony RX1? For me the benefits of a full frame sensor is to bring equivalence and complete use of the full frame lenses we would like to use on it. But if its fixed lens I dont really see much advantage for the mammoth price difference to a APS sensor high end compact. With the reviews I have seen this Sony Zeiss lens is good in comparison to alot of the others in their range but it really isnt the all out Zeiss quality we see out of Germany and Contax and Cosina Zeiss. The Fuji lenses are more than a match for this lens so if a fixed lens compact is what your after then they represent far better value. Its true the full frame sensor in the RX1 represents an achievement that brings hope of the possibility of a interchangeable lens version but as a camera in itself I think a Fuji X-E1 with their 35mm f1.4 at less than half the cost would be the way to go and you still have the ability for other lenses. Ive probably just poured petrol on myself so flame away if im missing something with the RX1.

 

The IQ of the RX1 is tangibly better than any X-trans camera, particularly in good light. Chroma smoothing is inherent to X-trans tech, so, while being an advantage in lowlight, you loose chroma resolution in good light. Luminance is sharp, but there are all kinds of chroma artifacts to deal with. To be honest, in good light, I'd rather shoot a NEX-6 or something with a regular Bayer sensor over X-trans. I currently own an X100s, but it is going up for sale soon.

 

As jaapv pointed out, the RX1 has the advantage of designing an integrated system without needing to compromise for different lenses. The rear element of the RX1's lens is probably larger than any that I've seen for a 35mm sensor, which couldn't be done without a huge bayonet mount, if interchangeability is the goal. The technical performance of the RX1's lens is "better" than my 35/2 ASPH on the M9, outside of a little bit of distortion. In fact, I'd risk saying that, outside of said distortion, the RX1 is capable of technically "better" output than any digital (color) M and any 35mm Leica lens. Of course this doesn't account for the "look" coming from the lens, which is a matter of taste, and when you get up into the realm of the M240, RX1, etc., the IQ is all seemingly great, so we're splitting hairs.

 

Because of the light falloff, astigmatism and AF/aperture motors in a potential mirrorless fullframe camera, the native lenses would be relatively huge. Just look at the size of the aps-c based Fuji X and NEX lenses as it is, and then size those up quite a bit. If anything, that's why I think fixed lens FF make a lot of sense.

 

All of that being said, I'm not sure that it would make sense for Leica to make a RX1 competitor, since Sony has a real advantage in the small electronics department, and I'm not sure that Leica could get close in cost...not that cost matters to everyone.

[dkCambridgeshire]

That hurts ;-)

 

But consider that there could be more than one new Leica camera announced on June 11.

 

dunk

[ErikP]

 

But consider that there could be more than one new Leica camera announced on June 11.

 

dunk

 

As long as it takes an M lens - I will be very happy.

 

That would be really positive.

[dkCambridgeshire]

As long as it takes an M lens - I will be very happy.

 

That would be really positive.

 

An X series Leica with a zoom lens would probably still be a 'Micro' camera as distinct from a 'Nano' or a 'Mini' ... if the X2 is now designated 'Micro'. Thus the rumoured new 'M MINI' could be another 'wee beastie'.

 

dunk

[erlingmm]

New rumour - Well, this is something different (source:

):

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[desu]

New rumour - Well, this is something different (source:

):

 

Obvious photoshop.