Leica vs the rest

[rramesh]

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Lately in this forum we have seen a spate of articles comparing Leica to the competition (Canon, Nikon, Sony, Olympus, Panasonic and others). Posts on how Leica is slow to market, how it has a poor supply chain, about products that lack features and how Leica will struggle to survive.

 

In fact today Leica is probably doing better that most other camera companies. Many Japanese camera companies are insulated by a poor business performance by other lines of business that are more lucrative e.g. medical imaging, consumer electronics, movies etc.

 

• Sony - Declining profits. 2012 profit ¥1.4 billion yen ($15 million). Sony makes first net profit in five years despite falling demand for core products | The Verge
  
• Olympus - Greater than anticipated operating loss of $225 million (23.07 billion yen) from its imaging business, mainly consisting of digital cameras. Scales back business. Olympus Scales Back Camera Business With Loss
  
• Nikon - Net income will probably be 38 billion yen ($405 million) for the year. Market and price erosion. Nikon Cuts Profit Outlook on Price Drops It Expects to Continue - Bloomberg
  
• Canon - Global shipments of digital cameras almost halved to 4.26 million units in February from a year earlier, a 10th consecutive monthly decline. Canon Slumps After Forecast Misses Estimates: Tokyo Mover - Bloomberg
  
• Panasonic - Sales of traditional cameras in the Asia Pacific region, of which New Zealand is a part, have dropped 14% in the last year, according to figures released by Panasonic. WBP Online - Panasonic suffers 10% sales drop in financial year 2012
  

I am happy with Leica.

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[dwbell]

In fact today Leica is probably doing better that most other camera companies.

 

You should play the markets, it's the only way to appreciate if armchair predictions about the economy actually means anything to anyone except oneself.

[bybrett]

Where are the Leica year end figures?

[dwbell]

Where are the Leica year end figures?

 

Not required. "Leica is probably doing better that most other camera companies"

 

Ignoring for the moment what "better" means. ROI, Market Share, %Growth year on year, Cash Reserves etc

[Stealth3kpl]

Leica brings something to the market that the others don't. Those little focus tabs on the lenses.

Pete

[baci]

It would certainly be interesting to know Leica's numbers - but we know they are investing in productive capacity and seem to have excess demand. Whether this is a function of too may orders or not enough production is unknown. One thing is for sure - they are playing a different game to the volume players, and their apparent strength should be viewed in that light. Appealing to a niche brings lots of positives, and Leica seem to be quite in command of the situation.

 

For what it's worth I wasn't aware the other players had suffered a decline in results so found the OP's post interesting and informative.

[UliWer]

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It would certainly be interesting to know Leica's numbers - but we know they are investing in productive capacity and seem to have excess demand. Whether this is a function of too may orders or not enough production is unknown. One thing is for sure - they are playing a different game to the volume players, and their apparent strength should be viewed in that light. Appealing to a niche brings lots of positives, and Leica seem to be quite in command of the situation.

 

For what it's worth I wasn't aware the other players had suffered a decline in results so found the OP's post interesting and informative.

 

Usually Leica's financial reports were published in July with some pre-announcements in June.

 

I am not sure if this will be the same this year, since the shares of Leica AG are not any longer traded on the stock exchange. There has been a "squeeze-out" last year, and Mr. Kaufmanns reason for taking Leica from the stock exchange was to spare costs for published reports.

 

Generally the camera market is changing rather dramatically: Cell-phone cameras are substituting cheap consumer cameras. So large parts of the economic basis of the "big players" from Japan are endangered. Even when they are doing quite good with more expensive gear, it seems they have to shrink.

 

For some "mixed" companies like Sony, Panasonic or Olympus I would not be too confident that they will stay on the camera and lens market for long. There might be sudden decisions to sell the whole photographic branch or just to stop production because it causes more costs than revenue. This is not new. We have seen this before in Germany during the 60s and 70s and in Japan about 10-15 years later.

[mwilliamsphotography]

I, for one, wouldn't think of predicting what or how any camera company or imaging division will do financially ... except to say I wouldn't invest in any of them.

 

A lot of these companies have depended on mass sales of P&S type cameras to allow making their lower demand, high performance camera products ... however, as the iPhone TV commercial asserts, "... more photos are taken everyday with an iPhone than any other camera."

 

Add to that all the other brands of smart phones, and e-writing is on the wall. Phones and iPads are the game changer in every way imaginable, and IMO we haven't seen the full impact of this yet ... although, I feel it a lot at every wedding I shoot when a hundred smart phones get whipped out every time the Bride smiles ... and their images are on Facebook before I even get home that day.

 

IMO, the only hope on the horizon is that the smart phones spark a deeper interest in photography so digital Rebel type cameras start selling in mass amounts. I seriously doubt that will happen, or if it does that it'll be enough ... especially as the smart phone cameras get better, the photo apps increase, and the need for better images decreases because of the way people are using photos now.

 

It is interesting to watch how the big players are going at the changing market. Canon has raised prices on many products relative to the competition, where Nikon has increased the spec with their 36 meg D800, but brought it in under the 22 meg Canon 5D-III price point. Sony is trying to be the game changer by going all EVF with their 24 meg A99 that's priced less than the Nikon or Canon (how's that working out for you Sony?)

 

We may scoff at Leica's regal personality and lofty aspirations to be in the same thought bubble as the Louis Vuitton, Patek Philippe, Bentley, Hermes, Movie Star, 1% crowd ... replete with "slick boutique" personal sales experiences ... but coupled with unique high-end products, that may well be the ONLY haven against the onslaught of "social photography" devices.

 

-Marc

[Peter H]

Leica brings something to the market that the others don't. Those little focus tabs on the lenses.

Pete

 

:D

[jaapv]

I, for one, wouldn't think of predicting what or how any camera company or imaging division will do financially ... except to say I wouldn't invest in any of them.

 

A lot of these companies have depended on mass sales of P&S type cameras to allow making their lower demand, high performance camera products ... however, as the iPhone TV commercial asserts, "... more photos are taken everyday with an iPhone than any other camera."

 

Add to that all the other brands of smart phones, and e-writing is on the wall. Phones and iPads are the game changer in every way imaginable, and IMO we haven't seen the full impact of this yet ... although, I feel it a lot at every wedding I shoot when a hundred smart phones get whipped out every time the Bride smiles ... and their images are on Facebook before I even get home that day.

 

IMO, the only hope on the horizon is that the smart phones spark a deeper interest in photography so digital Rebel type cameras start selling in mass amounts. I seriously doubt that will happen, or if it does that it'll be enough ... especially as the smart phone cameras get better, the photo apps increase, and the need for better images decreases because of the way people are using photos now.

 

It is interesting to watch how the big players are going at the changing market. Canon has raised prices on many products relative to the competition, where Nikon has increased the spec with their 36 meg D800, but brought it in under the 22 meg Canon 5D-III price point. Sony is trying to be the game changer by going all EVF with their 24 meg A99 that's priced less than the Nikon or Canon (how's that working out for you Sony?)

 

We may scoff at Leica's regal personality and lofty aspirations to be in the same thought bubble as the Louis Vuitton, Patek Philippe, Bentley, Hermes, Movie Star, 1% crowd ... replete with "slick boutique" personal sales experiences ... but coupled with unique high-end products, that may well be the ONLY haven against the onslaught of "social photography" devices.

 

-Marc

I would not be surprised if camera manufacturers -Leica included- would bring Internet connectivity to their cameras, enabling facebook uploads, simplified tethering and Cloud backups directly from the camera (and simplifying service at the same time) - and soon.

[bill]

You mean like Samsung has already?

 

Frankly, all this armchair CEO speculation is a waste of time. How many of us check the share price before buying a TV or a pen or a watch, I wonder?

 

Regards,

 

Bill

 

Sent from another Galaxy

[mwilliamsphotography]

Well Bill ... those aren't "systems" devices with elements that stay ... like lenses and accessories, and those that rapidly change ... like digital camera bodies, proprietary batteries, and firmware updates.

 

Anyone that has been a victim of a sudden departure from the photographic market may be a wee bit more sensitive to what a camera company is up to. Kodak suddenly baling on making digital backs ... with a proprietary battery that is now worth its' weight in gold, and no firmware forever. Kyocera/Contax is another example ... Leica discontinuing the R line is partially another, and I fear Hasselblad's management move to sink R&D time and treasure into the Lunar-Toons project, rather than really improving their core MF product, may be yet another.

 

Another example of how a business move impacted the end users is the DMR that used Imacon expertise. Then Imacon merged with Hasselblad leaving Leica holding the empty bag ... and by extension their customers.

 

Not to say that armchair CEOs really have any say ... but they do bring forth some interesting speculative points to keep an eye on.

 

-Marc

[bill]

We shall agree to differ.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

 

Sent from another Galaxy

[jaapv]

Well Bill ... those aren't "systems" devices with elements that stay ... like lenses and accessories, and those that rapidly change ... like digital camera bodies, proprietary batteries, and firmware updates.

 

Anyone that has been a victim of a sudden departure from the photographic market may be a wee bit more sensitive to what a camera company is up to. Kodak suddenly baling on making digital backs ... with a proprietary battery that is now worth its' weight in gold, and no firmware forever. Kyocera/Contax is another example ... Leica discontinuing the R line is partially another, and I fear Hasselblad's management move to sink R&D time and treasure into the Lunar-Toons project, rather than really improving their core MF product, may be yet another.

 

Another example of how a business move impacted the end users is the DMR that used Imacon expertise. Then Imacon merged with Hasselblad leaving Leica holding the empty bag ... and by extension their customers.

 

Not to say that armchair CEOs really have any say ... but they do bring forth some interesting speculative points to keep an eye on.

 

-Marc

 

Has the gold price dropped that much? Refurbising a battery costs 100$ max.

[chris_livsey]

Leica brings something to the market that the others don't. Those little focus tabs on the lenses.

Pete

 

The tabs on my Voigtlanders and Zeiss glass are figments of my imagination then ?

 

Oh and they are metal as well, Leica use plastic these days.

[Peter H]

Chris, I think it was a joke. As in, not to be taken literally or seriously.

[pico]

You should play the markets, it's the only way to appreciate if armchair predictions about the economy actually means anything to anyone except oneself.

 

Leica is not 'in the market' if you are speaking of stocks. I am a stock market maven. Do not know how I could make it without.

[pico]

Appealing to a niche brings lots of positives, and Leica seem to be quite in command of the situation.

 

What are the positives?

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[chris_livsey]

Chris, I think it was a joke. As in, not to be taken literally or seriously.

 

Obviously I'm too accustomed to the Leica fan club taking everything to the extreme.

Why don't we have that head hitting the brick wall gif?

[efreed2754]

Thanks for collecting the data Ramchand.

 

What it suggests is the middle to bottom of the camera market is losing market share to smart phones. The corollary is Leica's market share will increase even if their sales remain steady as the overall camera market shrinks.

 

Should the M generate increased sales, their market share will increase and the data will look good to Leica's owners. Someone can size the 2013 and 2014 market to see what share Leica and others have.

 

These trends may mean the winners (survivors?) are smart phones and perhaps high end camera makers. But then iTunes eliminated the record business and smart phones may do the same to the camera industry.

 

Yes, our Leica's will be like vinyl records?

 

Ed