Will Leica update to the VF-4 EVF?

[Exodies]

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Are any Leica accessories updated? It seems like expecting to update a USB2 socket to USB3 on a laptop - it doesn't happen.

[quadraticadder]

Apologies if this has been said, but I think Leica will only do it if they can sell a VF-4 EVF that has been rebranded under the Leica name, *and* if they can make sell enough of those to make a profit. Otherwise, it would be a strange decision for one camera company to update their flagship camera so it can operate with another camera company's EVF.

 

Best,

Steve

[edwardkaraa]

Good point. Also imagine the furious EVF 2 owners who will demand a free upgrade

 

The EVF 4 will be introduced with the new camera, and by the time it's available to buy, it would be obsolete too

[mjh]

Leica’s new, higher resolution EVF has already been introduced. It isn’t compatible with the current M though.

[wlaidlaw]

Leica’s new, higher resolution EVF has already been introduced. It isn’t compatible with the current M though.

 

.....neither physically nor electronically.

 

Given that Epson announced the improved EVF screen used in the VF-4 before Leica announced the M240, which uses Leica’s pre-existing Epson component containing but Leica branded EVF for the X cameras, it looks as if their might not have been the liaison between Leica, Epson and Olympus that one might have hoped for. If my considerably older Olympus EP-2 can be upgraded to use the VF-4 with an FW update, then for Leica not to have allowed for this, looks sloppy at best and wilfully ignorant of customer requirements at worst. The VF-4 would make a very big difference to framing and focusing non-RF lenses or RF lenses in low light.

 

Wilson

[mjh]

Given that Epson announced the improved EVF screen used in the VF-4 before Leica announced the M240, which uses Leica’s pre-existing Epson component containing but Leica branded EVF for the X cameras, it looks as if their might not have been the liaison between Leica, Epson and Olympus that one might have hoped for. If my considerably older Olympus EP-2 can be upgraded to use the VF-4 with an FW update, then for Leica not to have allowed for this, looks sloppy at best and wilfully ignorant of customer requirements at worst.

They are not doing this just to annoy their customers … The bottleneck – both for supporting higher resolution EVFs and for higher video framerates – seems to be the Maestro CPU, but then its successor wasn’t available yet.

[wlaidlaw]

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They are not doing this just to annoy their customers … The bottleneck – both for supporting higher resolution EVFs and for higher video framerates – seems to be the Maestro CPU, but then its successor wasn’t available yet.

 

Michael,

 

Surely the Maestro processor must be better than what is in my old Olympus EP-2.

 

Wilson

[edwardkaraa]

I am sure the real reason is not the processor. Leica needs a certain mark up on its third party Leica branded accessories. The Olympus VF 2 is sold by Leica for 500$. How much was the EVF of the T? How much would Leica sell the Leica branded Olympus VF 4, around 1000$? I have the feeling Leica might still have quite a few EVF 2 in stock, that will become obsolete if a FW update was issued. I am also very sure that the next M camera (M240P?) will have different EVF contacts than Olympus, just like the T

[jdlaing]

I am sure the real reason is not the processor. Leica needs a certain mark up on its third party Leica branded accessories. The Olympus VF 2 is sold by Leica for 500$. How much was the EVF of the T? How much would Leica sell the Leica branded Olympus VF 4, around 1000$? I have the feeling Leica might still have quite a few EVF 2 in stock, that will become obsolete if a FW update was issued. I am also very sure that the next M camera (M240P?) will have different EVF contacts than Olympus, just like the T

 

It's not an Olympus EVF-2. It is an Epson EVF. The Leica version is even shaped differently as Leica bought it directly from Epson.

 

The VF-4 would work on the M-240 with only a firmware update.

[lct]

Still at 30 fps or less though no?

[wlaidlaw]

Still at 30 fps or less though no?

 

We have managed with movies for the last 100 years at 24 fps so 30 fps would be very acceptable to me if the far larger (50% in area), sharper and brighter screen of the VF-4 were to be usable. For movies, where more than 30fps is needed or maybe sports photography (but would the M240 be your tool of choice - it certainly would not be mine), you could always revert to the VF-2. Even if you have to buy one, they are dirt cheap now.

 

Wilson

[mjh]

The VF-4 would work on the M-240 with only a firmware update.

But that’s the question, isn’t it? And the only people who would know for sure say it isn’t possible.

 

For example Leica had tried everything (low-level machine code optimisations) to achieve 30 fps video at 1920x1080 pixels and failed; maybe there really is some bottleneck preventing the delivery of 0.8 MP at 30 fps to the EVF? A rough calculation of the throughput required would suggest it should work just fine, but as usual the devil is in the details. Note that 30 fps isn’t available at 1280x720 pixel either, although again one would think that as 1280*720*30 < 1920*1080*25 the CPU should be able to cope with the throughput.

[jdlaing]

But that’s the question, isn’t it? And the only people who would know for sure say it isn’t possible.

 

For example Leica had tried everything (low-level machine code optimisations) to achieve 30 fps video at 1920x1080 pixels and failed; maybe there really is some bottleneck preventing the delivery of 0.8 MP at 30 fps to the EVF? A rough calculation of the throughput required would suggest it should work just fine, but as usual the devil is in the details. Note that 30 fps isn’t available at 1280x720 pixel either, although again one would think that as 1280*720*30 < 1920*1080*25 the CPU should be able to cope with the throughput.

 

Michael,

 

Let me repeat. It WOULD work with just a firmware adjustment. Trust me.

[mjh]

Let me repeat. It WOULD work with just a firmware adjustment. Trust me.

Maybe you are intimately familiar with this CPU; I have to admit I am not (and it has been a long time that I have written low-level heavily optimised code; my coding is mostly recreational these days).

[rosuna]

My feeling is Leica will do it if it is possible for the current M.

 

In any case they will replace that processor soon.

 

I am not really concerned but I understand those M users asking for this (R lenses users, particularly).

 

The key usability problem with EVFs is the actuation of the shutter (for me). So I would be interested in a higher resolution EVF only if Leica also changes the sensor and incorporates one with electronic first curtain actuation.

 

It is not just the EVF, or the processor. All the elements are interconnected.

[AlanJW]

Maybe you are intimately familiar with this CPU; I have to admit I am not (and it has been a long time that I have written low-level heavily optimised code; my coding is mostly recreational these days).

 

I vote for Leica to hire JDLaing to do the coding.

[fotofool]

It is interesting how much Magic Lantern has squeezed out of Canon hardware with their third party firmware... More than Canon could or would do themselves. They even activated a "dual ISO" feature (every other row at double the ISO) to create a file with more dynamic range. Apparently Canon had set up the hardware to do it but decided, for whatever reason, not to implement it in the firmware. Magic Lantern discovered it and made it work quite well. Perhaps Leica should consider outsourcing some firmware development to ML if they lack the in house resources -- or just can't figure it out.

[edwardkaraa]

As said by someone earlier, Leica will update the FW when it has a new EVF to sell.

 

That Leica will specifically update the FW so that we can use an Olympus EVF on a Leica body is really day dreaming and too much optimism, let alone the damage to the brand name as it will be considered as unable to make its own EVF. Olympus would be very pleased though

[fotofool]

As said by someone earlier, Leica will update the FW when it has a new EVF to sell.

 

That Leica will specifically update the FW so that we can use an Olympus EVF on a Leica body is really day dreaming and too much optimism, let alone the damage to the brand name as it will be considered as unable to make its own EVF. Olympus would be very pleased though

 

I don't think anyone expects Leica to update the firmware without also releasing a Leica branded version of the EVF 4. I think the "day dream" is that they will do both. If they are really bothered by people buying the Olympus branded hardware they could even ask Olympus to make some change to a new Leica branded EVF (or it's own firmware) so the camera could check and make sure it is talking to a Leica branded one. Then everyone who wanted to pay to get from EVF2 to 4 would have to buy the new Leica branded one.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[edwardkaraa]

I don't think anyone expects Leica to update the firmware without also releasing a Leica branded version of the EVF 4. I think the "day dream" is that they will do both. If they are really bothered by people buying the Olympus branded hardware they could even ask Olympus to make some change to a new Leica branded EVF (or it's own firmware) so the camera could check and make sure it is talking to a Leica branded one. Then everyone who wanted to pay to get from EVF2 to 4 would have to buy the new Leica branded one.

 

Agreed, but I don't see Leica introducing a new EVF for the M240. I suspect the new EVF will be introduced with the M240P and it will have proprietary Leica contacts, probably similar to the T. Good points about Magic Lantern above.