Chris Posted December 21, 2015 Share #81 Posted December 21, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Dreaming... Why keep dreaming? I'm living close to Wetzlar and have been there a few times. If somebody would explain the limitation we might understand and accept. Just the feeling of Leica not hearing us makes me mad. (Who knows, maybe it's just one line of code that needs to be changed in the M's firmware?!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 21, 2015 Posted December 21, 2015 Hi Chris, Take a look here M 240 long exposure Bulb modus. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pico Posted December 21, 2015 Share #82 Posted December 21, 2015 I have to believe there is a secret menu that allows some creative meddling. There is on my M9, some options with the new firmware I do not yet understand, but I am willing to take the chance of bricking it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giulio Zanni Posted December 22, 2015 Share #83 Posted December 22, 2015 By the way the problem can be overcome in post processing by stacking exposures, but that means more work.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 22, 2015 Share #84 Posted December 22, 2015 Chris, on 21 Dec 2015 - 23:17, said:Chris, on 21 Dec 2015 - 23:17, said:Why keep dreaming? I'm living close to Wetzlar and have been there a few times. If somebody would explain the limitation we might understand and accept. Just the feeling of Leica not hearing us makes me mad. (Who knows, maybe it's just one line of code that needs to be changed in the M's firmware?!) Well, Leica has been in the photography business for a few years. It is just conceivable that they are aware of the technique of long exposures. That could lead to the suspicion that they have a good reason to limit the exposure time. Why don't you just drive over, and ask over a cup of coffee? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted December 22, 2015 Share #85 Posted December 22, 2015 H E A T Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 22, 2015 Share #86 Posted December 22, 2015 Yes and no - the body is indeed too small and full to build a significant heat sink into, but OTOH it is solid metal and conducts well, as demonstrated by the limited cold-weather duration of the batteries. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giulio Zanni Posted December 22, 2015 Share #87 Posted December 22, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) H E A T If I am not wrong the M9 and MM1 allowed for 4 minutes exposure, which was somehow acceptable. In general, a CMOS sensor allows for longer/or better long exposures than a CCD sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted December 22, 2015 Share #88 Posted December 22, 2015 Jaap, sure they might. But why can't they let us know about the reason? A Sony A7 is a full frame camera in a body which is just as small as a Leica M and can expose for a couple minutes in bulb mode. It seems like bulb is still possible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 22, 2015 Share #89 Posted December 22, 2015 Well, I don't know about the relative amount of space inside the A7 body. With a company like Sony it is quite possible that they have reached a level of integration to fit everything into a matchbox. With low-volume products such dedicated electronics are hard - if not prohibitively expensive- to implement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted December 26, 2015 Share #90 Posted December 26, 2015 Well, Leica has been in the photography business for a few years. It is just conceivable that they are aware of the technique of long exposures. That could lead to the suspicion that they have a good reason to limit the exposure time. Why don't you just drive over, and ask over a cup of coffee? I didn't mean to say I don't believe that some very crafted, experienced and capable employes work at Leica. If I hadn't believed in Leica I would not own a Leica IIIc, M3, M4-P and M240. I honestly love the Leica M experience (be it film or digital), but I see a huge culprit in the lack of a real bulb mode (and lack of long time exposures) and even bigger issues in the lack in the missing communication about the 60 / 240 seconds limitation. As as result I would love to sit down in Wetzlar to a talk with somebody at Leica about how the M experience could be even better. I just don't think a single person heading to the front desk in Wetzlar without support of a community like this right here is able to change anything. If most people do not care about a true bulb mode or just want to trade in their current Leica Ms for the next new model, which probably will have a longer bulb mode, that's fine. I think Leica will only give us an answer of what's possible and what's not (and why) if we as their customers make our voices heard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david strachan Posted December 28, 2015 Share #91 Posted December 28, 2015 The M8's max time out is 500 sec, on Timer and Bulb. It takes a good image to 360 seconds, but funny spots come in after that. Of course you're still stuck with the time to make the dark slide. So there is still a gap for exposures longer than say 6 minutes. And stacking still shows this gap. The best to use is film and scan to digital. Also has a nice smooth background without noise. cheers Dave S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiloFido Posted December 29, 2015 Share #92 Posted December 29, 2015 Dear All, I have stopped using Leica since the R8, today I was mentoring a friend on long exp, and found the show stopper on his M camera and was trying to understand if it was a limitation of the camera or sheer ignorance on the system... I got the answer a limit of the camera. First of All if you own a Leica M stick to its limits ...you will damage the sensor if not.... this is the advise I have given to my friend.... Horses for courses, ...would you use the Leica to shoot a Formula one race? Obviously Not, this is another thing tha you can't do, likewise macro photography. Yes it over heats and it has to do with the so called black current...in simple terms is the catch 22 in the relation between electrical current and heat. Leica restricted the time presumably not to go bankrupt for sensor replacements under warranty. The sensor is of an old concept build in a body that might be too small, and god knows what else..... However what a shame, if not a shamble.... Ansel Adams I presume is feeling the pain 16 ft under.... Long exposure are a must for the landscape fotographer, forget about astrophotographers as it is a niche field, I regularly do exposures of 8, 16 and 32 minutes and occasionally even hours, strictly using f8 +/- 1 stop, this for optical limitation common to ALL lenses due to defraction. Unfortunately there is no gimmic of exp compensation or double exposures that can produce the results of a long exposure; This from the point of the previously mentioned "shame" As for the "shamble" ....Well ....a body that costs twice as much as my Nikon Df, and has far worse performance altogether ....not only in exp time but also in ISO performance, you can argue that it is a different type of camera, however do we want to shoot pictures or wear a Rolex? My almost 10 years old Nikon D3x has a better sensor.....and here is what I believe is the root cause: Leica is a small company, and till the era of films when the camera was a box and quality was determined by optics they were undoubtedly the Best. Nowdays is a completely different ballgame, Leica can't compete with the likes of Cannon, Nikon, Sony,etc....it is not economically viable, the business model is unsustainable, in electronics the development of the first unit costs you millions and from the second unit onward peanuts, this can only work if the items are produced in large quantities, specially when every two to three years technology has moves so fast that it is almost unrecognisable. Leica...Wake Up!!!! Get support from a third party expert in electronics development; to admit you own limits is not a weakness, it shows competence! You still make the best lenses, and soon your expertise will be needed by the big names, as with the introduction of the new sensors with 50 Mpixel their old technology for grinding glasses is reaching its limits. For those of you that might doubt the need of long exposure settings I am attaching a low resolution picture taken with a D3x last summer in Venice with f10, 540 seconds exp,ISO 100 ND 1024 + CPL + soft grad 0.9 taken at 7pm in front of the train station section of the Canal Grande. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/204095-m-240-long-exposure-bulb-modus/?do=findComment&comment=2958154'>More sharing options...
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