don daniel Posted May 1, 2013 Share #441 Posted May 1, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) With the M it's both. With the M9 it's only the colors that are off, wb ist better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 1, 2013 Posted May 1, 2013 Hi don daniel, Take a look here M Color. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jonoslack Posted May 1, 2013 Share #442 Posted May 1, 2013 Is the m240 wb off or are the relative colors? Hi There In my opinion, the WB presets are off - an not the relative colours. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted May 1, 2013 Share #443 Posted May 1, 2013 How does one develop an objective proof for a statement about relative colors of the M240? Namely, are the colors off or not? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted May 1, 2013 Share #444 Posted May 1, 2013 Hi ThereIn my opinion, the WB presets are off - an not the relative colours. CORRECT. I have calibrated my monitor I have created a dual illuminant DNG profile for my M240 There are some slight but subtle differences from embedded (not much) and adobe (a bit) When WB is adjusted the colour profile to me looks perfect. It has all the vibrancy of M9 files and if anything looks better and more balanced...... It is only the WB that is off and that is fairly easliy correctable ...... if Leica re-set the daylight/cloudy etc a few hundred k lower it would be a better representation of reality. Auto WB is ok in sunlight but gets progressively worse the lower the illumination level..... which is a pain because otherwise you could just apply a global correction and be roughly right for all images.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted May 1, 2013 Share #445 Posted May 1, 2013 Hi ThereIn my opinion, the WB presets are off - an not the relative colours. Jono, I know you are an Aperture user and I don't know what the standard profile is like on Aperture (I must have a look tomorrow) but the standard profiles on both LR and C1 are so far off that it gives a much worse impression of the colour from the M240, than I think is actually the case. The fact that the RAW developers have got the profiles wrong can hardly be laid at Leica's door. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted May 1, 2013 Share #446 Posted May 1, 2013 The fact that the RAW developers have got the profiles wrong can hardly be laid at Leica's door. But some difference of opinion in this thread as to whether any sort of 'collaboration' is possible or even potentially beneficial. Otherwise, it seems to me, it's chicken and egg...no yolk. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 1, 2013 Share #447 Posted May 1, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am sure I read somewhere that there is an after market bottom plate that does have such doors. Interesting but not necessary for me. Whoops! I just told kdriceman this diversion was over. Sorry! Leicatime - Luigi Creszenzi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfunnell Posted May 1, 2013 Share #448 Posted May 1, 2013 M250 is going to be much better like the M9 was compared to the M8 Another comparison may be Vista to Windows 7. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenerrolrd Posted May 2, 2013 Share #449 Posted May 2, 2013 CORRECT. I have calibrated my monitor I have created a dual illuminant DNG profile for my M240 There are some slight but subtle differences from embedded (not much) and adobe (a bit) When WB is adjusted the colour profile to me looks perfect. It has all the vibrancy of M9 files and if anything looks better and more balanced...... It is only the WB that is off and that is fairly easliy correctable ...... if Leica re-set the daylight/cloudy etc a few hundred k lower it would be a better representation of reality. Auto WB is ok in sunlight but gets progressively worse the lower the illumination level..... which is a pain because otherwise you could just apply a global correction and be roughly right for all images.... Sorry but I have to disagree here . I did the same test and compared the results with similar tests of the M9 and the D800E /R lenses. 1. Their is no way the AWB is accurate in daylight . I shot a grey card at noon on a sunny day . The AWB is 500-1000K warm . This is exactly the results that Diglloyd got in his tests . I ve seen enough files to just label this statement as rubbish . 2. The second issue with the colors of the M ..is that they are over saturated . I did it by eye as it appears you did . Try doing it by the numbers . I need to do more tests but it appears that the M has a bias toward yellow green and the M9 toward blue and magenta . You can see this easier with the embedded profile . The adobe profile does pump up the magenta and balance out the tendency toward greenish tint . 3. The tone curve is significantly different because the M has a greater DR . Out of the camera the colors are darker and the light tones spread more evenly . Check the grey scale if you doubt this . If you adjust the AWB, establish a camera calibration and adjust exposure to match your tone curve ...you can calibrate the M and the M9 to a very close standard . The issue is that this can be difficult and as lighting changes frustrating . Plenty of other systems get it close right out of the camera and handle changes in lighting easily . Please someone try shooting some portraits in daylight with an M and M9 ..then publish the results without custom calibration . Apples and Oranges . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexander Posted May 2, 2013 Share #450 Posted May 2, 2013 Hello How does this work: "If you adjust the AWB, establish a camera calibration and adjust exposure to match your tone curve ...you can calibrate the M and the M9 to a very close standard ." liebe Grüße Alexander Sorry but I have to disagree here . I did the same test and compared the results with similar tests of the M9 and the D800E /R lenses. 1. Their is no way the AWB is accurate in daylight . I shot a grey card at noon on a sunny day . The AWB is 500-1000K warm . This is exactly the results that Diglloyd got in his tests . I ve seen enough files to just label this statement as rubbish . 2. The second issue with the colors of the M ..is that they are over saturated . I did it by eye as it appears you did . Try doing it by the numbers . I need to do more tests but it appears that the M has a bias toward yellow green and the M9 toward blue and magenta . You can see this easier with the embedded profile . The adobe profile does pump up the magenta and balance out the tendency toward greenish tint . 3. The tone curve is significantly different because the M has a greater DR . Out of the camera the colors are darker and the light tones spread more evenly . Check the grey scale if you doubt this . If you adjust the AWB, establish a camera calibration and adjust exposure to match your tone curve ...you can calibrate the M and the M9 to a very close standard . The issue is that this can be difficult and as lighting changes frustrating . Plenty of other systems get it close right out of the camera and handle changes in lighting easily . Please someone try shooting some portraits in daylight with an M and M9 ..then publish the results without custom calibration . Apples and Oranges . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted May 2, 2013 Share #451 Posted May 2, 2013 Sorry but I have to disagree here . I did the same test and compared the results with similar tests of the M9 and the D800E /R lenses. 1. Their is no way the AWB is accurate in daylight . I shot a grey card at noon on a sunny day . The AWB is 500-1000K warm . This is exactly the results that Diglloyd got in his tests . I ve seen enough files to just label this statement as rubbish . 2. The second issue with the colors of the M ..is that they are over saturated . I did it by eye as it appears you did . Try doing it by the numbers . I need to do more tests but it appears that the M has a bias toward yellow green and the M9 toward blue and magenta . You can see this easier with the embedded profile . The adobe profile does pump up the magenta and balance out the tendency toward greenish tint . 3. The tone curve is significantly different because the M has a greater DR . Out of the camera the colors are darker and the light tones spread more evenly . Check the grey scale if you doubt this . If you adjust the AWB, establish a camera calibration and adjust exposure to match your tone curve ...you can calibrate the M and the M9 to a very close standard . The issue is that this can be difficult and as lighting changes frustrating . Plenty of other systems get it close right out of the camera and handle changes in lighting easily . Please someone try shooting some portraits in daylight with an M and M9 ..then publish the results without custom calibration . Apples and Oranges . In http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/2379888-post26.html 01af has this recommendation, quote: "Until then, here's my recipe for getting the M9's colour at least half-way right in Camera Raw/Lightroom (sorry, no recipe for the M, as mine hasn't been delivered yet). In the Camera Calibration panel, select Process=2012 and Camera Profile=Embedded. Then adjust the primaries as follows: Red Primary: Hue +15; Saturation -10. Green Primary: Hue 0; Saturation -5. Blue Prmary: Hue -15; Saturation -25. Furthermore, in the Basic panel, tune Saturation down to -10. Save these setting as your new default for the Leica M9." First, please let me ask whether this recommendation agrees with your experience? If not, what do you recommend for the M9? Second, what settings do you suggest to use for the M? Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted May 2, 2013 Share #452 Posted May 2, 2013 Sorry but I have to disagree here . I did the same test and compared the results with similar tests of the M9 and the D800E /R lenses. 1. Their is no way the AWB is accurate in daylight . I shot a grey card at noon on a sunny day . The AWB is 500-1000K warm . This is exactly the results that Diglloyd got in his tests . I ve seen enough files to just label this statement as rubbish . read what I said .... and what I've written before ...... I have never said it is correct in daylight ..... I am pointing out that it is less wrong in bright sunlight .... all the WB settings are miles adrift ..... its just that the higher the K in the image the less it seems away from reality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted May 2, 2013 Share #453 Posted May 2, 2013 Been trying to get the two issues separated the whole thread. Make dual luminance profile with (properly exposed, very important!) GTMB chart in temperature controlled (preferably measured with C500) lighting for tungsten and daylight. Go out and shoot pictures like Thighslapper so admirably has in various lighting conditions where possible with the GTMB (or Xrite passport) in the frame. Post dng results and icc profile for others to draw subjective conclusions. Hive mind the analysis get's a quick and broad trend. But someone needs to do the shooting first. I would, but my M is still unavailable. I'm in correspondence with someone who has done all this and my mind may soon be at ease anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted May 2, 2013 Share #454 Posted May 2, 2013 read what I said .... and what I've written before ...... I have never said it is correct in daylight ..... I am pointing out that it is less wrong in bright sunlight .... all the WB settings are miles adrift ..... its just that the higher the K in the image the less it seems away from reality. I don't think it was confrontational, and I appreciate your slightly exhausted tone after all you've put into this issue. But you said "Auto WB is ok in sunlight but...", which may be what he was countering in point 1. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted May 2, 2013 Share #455 Posted May 2, 2013 Please someone try shooting some portraits in daylight with an M and M9 ..then publish the results without custom calibration . Apples and Oranges . I sometimes feel I am banging my head against a brick wall..... http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/278105-comparison-m9-m240-7.html#post2385747 The start of all the comparisons ..... WB, ISO, shadow recovery etc is here: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/278105-comparison-m9-m240-3.html#post2362283 Personally, if Leica adjust the in camera WB settings to something near 'normal' I will shut up and stop posting ...... there is nothing else about the M240 that I am dissatisfied with... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted May 2, 2013 Share #456 Posted May 2, 2013 There's a lot to read in a few different threads, plus the side battles that go along with them. So some might miss some points. It's inevitable. Doesn't mean your efforts are any less valuable. It's just how them internets work..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikP Posted May 2, 2013 Share #457 Posted May 2, 2013 There's a lot to read in a few different threads' date=' plus the side battles that go along with them. So some might miss some points. It's inevitable. Doesn't mean your efforts are any less valuable. It's just how them internets work.....[/quote'] I find this thread very informative and interesting. Keep the nice dialoge - for us who plan to buy the M - this is most useful and interesting. Thx for your effort Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 2, 2013 Share #458 Posted May 2, 2013 The same here. I've read enough feedback from photographers I highly respect onthis thread to have no worry about the M colours at all,especially mid and long term. Now where is my camera ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted May 2, 2013 Share #459 Posted May 2, 2013 I sometimes feel I am banging my head against a brick wall..... I know the feeling... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/203015-m-color/?do=findComment&comment=2312650'>More sharing options...
batmobile Posted May 2, 2013 Share #460 Posted May 2, 2013 All of this suggests its just more sensible to buy a Monochrom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.