dwbell Posted May 22, 2013 Share #641 Posted May 22, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Marc, you're clearly not up to date with the modern world. You have to love X or Y these days. You can't be in between, undecided, or waiting to see how it plays out. Plus, and this is important. If you do decide to love X, you instantly hate Y. That's fact. It's important that the love for X be all consuming too. You can't find it great at some things and not so good at others, it's all in or you're a hater. You'll object at first, because you'll find the urge to think for yourself too strong. But gradually you'll realise how little thinking is actually needed when you blindly go all in behind one or the other. Such a relief. Then you can enjoy the warm feeling of love for being "accepted" and "in the gang". Apply it to all aspects of your life for a numb cruise to the finish line. Religion. Politics. Consumer choice. Social concerns. Empty your mind.....literally. (PS - Not a dig at any poster in this or other threads, just a personal reflection on perceived polarisation of societal norms) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 Hi dwbell, Take a look here M Color. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lct Posted May 22, 2013 Share #642 Posted May 22, 2013 Just a mere WB issue with minor paranoid crises if you ask me. After the first Gaumy's pics the M240 was allegedly too cold, then it became too warm and now it's turning yellow green for some reason. The next firmware update should calm this down a bit hopefully. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted May 22, 2013 Share #643 Posted May 22, 2013 Marc, you're clearly not up to date with the modern world. You have to love X or Y these days. You can't be in between, undecided, or waiting to see how it plays out. Plus, and this is important. If you do decide to love X, you instantly hate Y. That's fact. It's important that the love for X be all consuming too. You can't find it great at some things and not so good at others, it's all in or you're a hater. You'll object at first, because you'll find the urge to think for yourself too strong. But gradually you'll realise how little thinking is actually needed when you blindly go all in behind one or the other. Such a relief. Then you can enjoy the warm feeling of love for being "accepted" and "in the gang". Apply it to all aspects of your life for a numb cruise to the finish line. Religion. Politics. Consumer choice. Social concerns....Empty your mind.....literally. ... (PS - Not a dig at any poster in this or other threads, just a personal reflection on perceived polarisation of societal norms) dwdell, sorry, got to say this: what you've written sounds like a Google Translate from the Japanese. By way of explanation: I just spent half an hour reading, through Google Translate, Japanese posts on Moriyama Daido's initial views on the new Ricoh GR camera. —Mitch/Paris My Flickr Site Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted May 22, 2013 Share #644 Posted May 22, 2013 dwdell, sorry, got to say this: what you've written sounds like a Google Translate from the Japanese. By way of explanation: I just spent half an hour reading, through Google Translate, Japanese posts on Moriyama Daido's initial views on the new Ricoh GR camera. —Mitch/Paris My Flickr Site The tone was aimed more at Cyborg "You will be assimilated", but it seems I missed the mark... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted May 22, 2013 Share #645 Posted May 22, 2013 Just a mere WB issue with minor paranoid crises if you ask me. After the first Gaumy's pics the M240 was allegedly too cold, then it became too warm and now it's turning yellow green for some reason. The next firmware update should calm this down a bit hopefully. I agree that it's kind of a non issue in terms of white balance and CC profile. Yet I agree with other posters that if it's such a simple thing, why the hell didn't Leica get it right first time? Why subject yourself to this scrutiny over such a basic topic? Makes no sense. I agree with Marc that the skin tones are better, quicker, first time on other cameras. I've struggled with the M9 though too so am willing to cut Leica some slack. Though if they could provide for A99 tones SOOC I'd be even happier still! edit: I heavily edit a couple of images per day for either personal or art use. I never face wedding style numbers of images to be developed so my needs differ greatly from others. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bybrett Posted May 22, 2013 Share #646 Posted May 22, 2013 I agree that it's kind of a non issue in terms of white balance and CC profile. Yet I agree with other posters that if it's such a simple thing, why the hell didn't Leica get it right first time? Why subject yourself to this scrutiny over such a basic topic? Makes no sense. There was a hardware change late in beta testing. I speculate that this skewed the WB and it was overlooked in the rush to make a few hundred cameras available by "early" 2013. If not then it makes no sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted May 22, 2013 Share #647 Posted May 22, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) ... I speculate ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 22, 2013 Share #648 Posted May 22, 2013 ...I agree with Marc that the skin tones are better, quicker, first time on other cameras... With AWB i guess but did you try with manual WB? Just curious as i did it once only and found no significant colour problem then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted May 22, 2013 Share #649 Posted May 22, 2013 With AWB i guess but did you try with manual WB? Just curious as i did it once only and found no significant colour problem then. Oh how I wish I could! Alas, the complete lack of any delay, hiatus or other things untoward at Solms means I haven't got my camera yet, despite being first on the list and ordering long before it was even announced! Everything I know, I know from these forums and the images and work people have kindly shared. I do shoot manual WB on my M9 and Canon bodies though, just for the consistency prior to post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted May 22, 2013 Share #650 Posted May 22, 2013 The tone was aimed more at Cyborg "You will be assimilated", but it seems I missed the mark... I understood the Cyborg" construct, and didn't need Google Translate to do it. I don't think that is necessarily correct, even though any of us can get aggressively dismissive of alternative opinions sometimes, LOL!. I think some folks like this camera's colors and some don't ... and neither one is going to alter the other's opinion. What is important is that both opinions be expressed, so those looking to possibly buy a M240 understand what is at stake BEFORE they lay down $7 Grand cash money. There is a dynamic mix of tastes, shooting disciplines, needs and applications here. What some do not take into account is that these dynamics can vary widely and are the basis of evaluating a camera. Some have the luxury of fiddling with color, writing profiles, and so on ... while for others it is a PITA, and unproductive. IMO, a Leica M is NOT jewelry, it is a high-end photographic tool. There is no reason it shouldn't be used both for pleasure or for business ... but in either case, it should be reliable, and do the basic stuff at least as well as a semi-pro camera that cost 1/3 the price. That's all ... nothing more, nothing less. - Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted May 23, 2013 Share #651 Posted May 23, 2013 I got more curious about the M's color and was wondering what is going happening on a technical level. At first was looking for some M DNGs of skin tones but then came across some color charts in a public drop box. This one was shot in sunlight and seems like a more objective way of understanding this than by just using a shot with skin tones. (Also useful though.) Using DXO again, here is the original and then in the profiles that simulate various cameras. In order - M (original image,) M9, 5DIII, D800, 1DsIII, A99, and SLT-Nex. And I overlay-ed a D800 strip on top of the M version... this makes it much easier to directly compare since our vision is affected by color constancy and tries to normalize colors. I clicked neutral balance on the bottom row one square in from the right and left that setting and all others undisturbed for the rest. For whatever reason, DXO's profile for the M boosts colors and contrast some. I haven't measured all of the blocks - that is something you can play with. (It helps to paste all of these into a single image.) I can clearly see it makes magenta deeper, darkens and saturates most everything else a bit and the bottom right square is quite a bit darker. And orange comes out too reddish - possibly explaining some skin tone issues. So the question is why would DXO and possibly other raw converters make the M profile look this way when clearly they don't have to? They must think Leica M users want really punchy colors that at times deviate significantly from what most other cameras do. As to what happens in other kinds of light - auto white balance or not, that is another issue but I presume that if Leica's color separation filters work this well under daylight, they would be similar in color response to what other cameras can do under various artificial lights.... providing the colors are adjusted properly for those lights. I find this last thing something that is tricky for the auto white balance of some cameras now that homes have a lot of energy efficient fluorescent lighting. By default my images in this light are often plagued by an over saturated yellow cast. And when mixed with daylight they will have yellow filling in shadows from the ceiling can lights and others. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/203015-m-color/?do=findComment&comment=2328034'>More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted May 23, 2013 Share #652 Posted May 23, 2013 Alan, It is always nice to acknowledge the person who took the trouble to post DNG's of CC24 charts on their Dropbox for the benefit of other Leica users - Me! (checked the EXIF camera serial number). Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 23, 2013 Share #653 Posted May 23, 2013 Thank you again Wilson. I can't seem to recall if you've shot the charts in auto or manual WB mode then. Could you confirm that the DNG files have been converted with Lightroom or ACR? Just curious as the latters oversaturate some colours on M240 files if memory serves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 23, 2013 Share #654 Posted May 23, 2013 Lightroom IS ACR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 23, 2013 Share #655 Posted May 23, 2013 What "ACR" am i using with Photoshop then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 23, 2013 Share #656 Posted May 23, 2013 Adobe Camera Raw, the raw converter shared by Photoshop and Lightroom. Only the user interface ( and possibly the version you have) is different between the two. The engine is the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted May 23, 2013 Share #657 Posted May 23, 2013 Thank you again Wilson. I can't seem to recall if you've shot the charts in auto or manual WB mode then. Could you confirm that the DNG files have been converted with Lightroom or ACR? Just curious as the latters oversaturate some colours on M240 files if memory serves. LCT, They are not developed at all, just straight out of the camera. Fixed WB (5000ºK from memory). Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 23, 2013 Share #658 Posted May 23, 2013 Hi Wilson, Alan's pics above bring up the ACR plug-in of my old CS3 for some reason. Are your DNG files still available? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 23, 2013 Share #659 Posted May 23, 2013 That is quite possible. Check the preferences to see which file types ACR should open. It can be set to open .jpg and .tif files automatically. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted May 23, 2013 Share #660 Posted May 23, 2013 Nikon users have been dealing with the wrong skin tones for years, I am not sure this is high on Leica's agenda, I am sure WB is higher If you want the correct skin tones out of the box (i.e. jpeg) its Canon or Fuji Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.