The UV/IR filter manual

[Guest guy_mancuso]

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Interesting I guess I can talk about this now since it is in print.

 

From the manual:

 

"This UV/IR filter is intended exclusively for use with the digital

LEICA M8 and the respective lenses. It functions as a strong

barrier especially in the IR range, ensuring neutral color reproduction

with LEICA M8 even when photographing such critical subjects

as black synthetic fibers.

Leica 6-bit coded lenses are necessary for the use of this filter

with LEICA M8.

Please ensure that your LEICA M8 has a firmware version higher

than 1.10 and select for this purpose the main menu item Lens

Detection (5.1.1) and in the associated sub-menu select the

variant On with UV/IR (see instr. p. 86).

 

Because of the blocking effect of the filter, when using analog

color film there will be undesirable color effects in the corners

of the pictures; the filter should therefore not be used with such

film."

 

 

Well it is a menu option to turn on the UV/IR filter on in the menu selection to control the now non existent cyan cast. It works very well is about all I can say. So do look forward to the next firmware upgrade and get your Leica filters for it. Remember this is for your 35mm lenses down to your widest. Yes there is a little in 35mm lenses

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[chetccox]

Just one observation - it says 'higher' than 1.10. The ability to turn the filter on and off may not be in 1.10.

[scott kirkpatrick]

Interesting I guess I can talk about this now since it is in print.

 

From the manual:

 

 

Please ensure that your LEICA M8 has a firmware version higher

than 1.10 and select for this purpose the main menu item Lens

Detection (5.1.1) and in the associated sub-menu select the

variant On with UV/IR (see instr. p. 86).

 

 

 

I guess this must be from the printed manual that comes with a Leica filter. I haven't received mine yet, so can't check. (Does anyone know if the lens and accessory manuals are downloadable? I've never found them, nor does there appear to be anything about filters on the Leica websites.)

 

So that's as i would have expected from looking at 1.092 -- under lens detection there are now three options OFF, ON, and ON with UV/IR filter installed, right? Any others, like the specific focal length of WATE you are using?

 

scott

[yadillah]

The manuel sys that coded lenses are necessary for the use of the filter. What about an uncoded lens?

[DaveEP]

I guess this must be from the printed manual that comes with a Leica filter. I haven't received mine yet, so can't check. scott

 

 

Yes, it's on the small instruction insert that came with my filters from Leica. I am really looking forward to the new firmware since I got the filters and managed to hand code the rest of my lenses....

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Yes, it's on the small instruction insert that came with my filters from Leica. I am really looking forward to the new firmware since I got the filters and managed to hand code the rest of my lenses....

 

 

Scott that is correct, it comes with the filters. and yes the other part but i did not tell you.

[stunsworth]

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The manuel sys that coded lenses are necessary for the use of the filter. What about an uncoded lens?

 

Use the filters. Cyan drift on uncoded lenses is predictable, magenta clothing isn't.

[hammam]

Interesting I guess I can talk about this now since it is in print.

 

From the manual:

 

"...

Leica 6-bit coded lenses are necessary for the use of this filter

with LEICA M8... "

 

QUOTE]

 

Thank you for the information, Guy. Very helpful, as usual.

 

Now, at the risk of looking insistent, I more and more have the feeling of being held hostage by Leica. In order to just correct a problem that Leica created themselves, and have your M8 work as it should, not only do you have to use coded Leica lenses (or have your Leica lenses coded at the cost of $100 a pop) - since Leica won't code third party lenses - but you also have to buy the more expensive Leica filters. All other digital cameras with interchangeable lenses work normally with available third party lenses and third party filters. AFAIK, only the M8 does not.

 

What p... me off, really, is that we're talking firmware higher than 1.10, which is not even available yet. But mainly, I see that Leica haven't bothered to look into replacing the coding with a menu option two firmwares from now. Don't tell me it can't be done. If you can have the info transmitted by contacts, you can have it transmitted by a menu option. I mean, Nikon does it extremely well with the D200, D2X and F6 when you want to use non-CPU lenses and keep matrix metering. I have the three Nikons, and it's a breeze to use: one line for the focal length, and another line for the max aperture, and you're done. It takes all of 10 seconds. Simplicity? Digital is not simple, and the M8 is already way more complex than a film M, so what would a few more lines of menu add to complexity? How many lenses in M mount below 35 mm can there be? We're not talking consumer P&S here. Come on. As for the fear that users may forget to set the lens data when they change lens, I am sorry, but that's pure B.S.

 

IF the filters were free, and IF the coding was free (which they should), then the sensor defects would be an inconvenience, easily remedied. As it is now, they become another source of income for Leica, probably with a big margin of profit. Let's say I had four Leica lenses when I bought the M8. 4 coding is $400, 4 Leica filters is another $400, if not more. That's $800 plus dollars on top of the $4,500 for the M8.

 

First, in their last newsletter. Leica say that you have to use Leica filters exclusively. Then, with the now mandatory Leica filter, comes this note: «Leica 6-bit coded lenses are necessary for the use of this filter

with LEICA M8...» Basically, the Leica blackmail is this: «If you use third party lenses and/or third party filters, we're sorry, but you may not get rid of the magenta cast, and you will get cyan corners.» This may not be the case, but this is what Leica say, and that's what I find revolting.

 

I had really hoped for Leica to amend, but they're making the most of an unforgivable mistake.

 

Pretty soon, GM will take example and will have their own personal gas distilled by someone, and they will say: «Sorry, but this car won't go unless you use our gas.»

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Who said you can't use other filters. I am and they look fine , You can hand code and the reason for coding orginally was for vignetting before IR came about and was optional. I'm sorry but now with the IR issue it became not a option anymore. You can shoot without them too, but this affects us all. If this is not something you want to do than there are other digital options also. I don't know how to answer these kinds of complaints because the pinch is hitting my pocket too. I just bought 4 Leica filters and still have 6 B+W filters and have not recieved my 4 free yet either. Who said we are not already past 1.10, don't assume. If you feel like your being blackmailed which I'm sorry is a pretty bad statement than sell the darn thing. No one is holding a gun to anyones head here. You need to get over this stuff. Remember even I as a beta tester have no idea what the final firmware will be , been surprised before and can again don't rule any feature out yet.

 

Not trying to be pissy and sorry if it sounded like that but let's see what happens

[robsteve]

Pretty soon, GM will take example and will have their own personal gas distilled by someone, and they will say: «Sorry, but this car won't go unless you use our gas.»

 

The difference is Leica told all of us that a Leica UV/IR filter would be required and the correction would only happen with coded lenses, before most of us bought the camera.

 

To use your analogy, GM told you the car would only work with GM gas and you bought the car anyway and then complained it wouldn't work with other gas.

[lct]

...GM told you the car would only work with GM gas and you bought the car anyway and then complained it wouldn't work with other gas...

The difference is there is no choice for DRF users but to enter the yet closed M system or to use an Epson body.

Epsonians like me won't complain too much i guess but some Leicaphiles may feel unhappy.

[hammam]

Robert, when I ordered my M8, early November 2006, Leica had NOT yet said that the solution to the IR magenta cast would be to add IR-cut filters. I had no idea at that time. Heck, most people didn't even knew that there was an IR problem in the first place. So, so much for Leica warning me ahead of my purchase.

 

Then, they made an announcement which said that an IR-cut filter would be necessary. Any IR-cut filter, not a Leica filter. When I received my M8, in February, I bought two Heliopan and one B+W filters, until I receive the complimentary ones from Leica, who knows when.

 

Then they started tweaking firmware, and all of a sudden they recommend using Leica filters exclusively. So, how will my filters work with firmware 1.10 and subsequent tweaks?

 

Guy, I am using third party filters myself, and they do work somehow. My problem, like I said, is that Leica is making us believe that only Leica filters on Leica lenses will give satisfactory results. Either this is true, and I think it's not normal to not be able to use third party lenses and third party filters. Or it isn't true, then why would Leica say that?

 

I had gotten over the fact that I had to buy IR-cut filters, and I made do with that, but now, listening to Leica recommendations, it seems that new firmware will create new problems with third party lenses and filters. I have three non-coded Leica lenses and two C/V lenses. If I believe Leica, I will have to buy Leica filters to replace the ones I have, to have my 35 Cron coded and to stop using my C/V lenses? Or won't I?

 

I do not believe the coding is an absolute necessity, and I do think Leica should be able to implement a menu system to set the focal length and max. aperture. And if they can tweak firmware to so-called Leica IR-cut filters specifications, then they can do it for third party filters specs, and offer the choice in the menu.

 

I am sorry, Guy, with all due respect, I don't think «Sell the darn thing» is an argument. I am just an amateur, I have invested a lot in the M8, I love it, and I want it to work without being forced to spend I don't know how much more just to get the color right across the frame. Is that really too much to ask?

[ho_co]

Don't complain when you haven't tried it.

 

It is likely that firmware 1.10 will limit the cyan corners well. Later firmware may do a better job. But since neither is available, this isn't the time to complain.

 

Leica says you must use coded lenses and their filters, but that obviously simply means "for best results."

 

Olivier, Leica has brought out a great camera with a couple late-discovered faults. Correcting those faults is costing both Leica and us money. And Leica is keeping us well informed about progress.

 

Things are moving in the right direction: Leica has just confirmed that firmware will fix the red vignetting. Until Guy posted this thread, that was just a hopeful rumor.

 

If firmware 1.10 isn't perfect, remember that Leica has already told you it may not be. But don't complain about it before you try it.

 

The first time to wonder whether the Leica filters do work better than the ones you've got is when you try your filters and are displeased by the result. Indications are that there is little difference between brands.

 

And in any case, worrying about what might happen tomorrow does nothing but spoil today.

 

Respectfully,

--HC

[robsteve]

Robert, when I ordered my M8, early November 2006, Leica had NOT yet said that the solution to the IR magenta cast would be to add IR-cut filters. I had no idea at that time. Heck, most people didn't even knew that there was an IR problem in the first place. So, so much for Leica warning me ahead of my purchase.

 

Olivier:

 

I just remember that you were contemplating canceling your order when the information about the IR filters came out. It was probably the first week of December when Leica released a statement regarding filters and coding being required to correct the problem.

 

I took the risk of ordering a few B+W 486 filters in early December, before my camera even arrived. I have shot with these filters for almost two months and have few complaints. If the results are not optimum with the 1.10 firmware, I will just have to live with my decision to use a third party filter. I really don't think it will be a problem, as the specs Leica posted for the filters were just a link to the B+W 486 filter specs.

[hammam]

Howard, my problem is actually not with what firmware 1.10 will do, and if my filters and lenses will still work - though this is also definitely a concern - but with Leica's communication and recommendations. In their last newsletter, they said that Leica filters should be used «exclusively», not «for better results», but «exclusively.» That's what initially p...d me off. Because many think that the Schneider-made Leica IR-cut filter have the exact same specs as the Schneider-made B+W 486, but they cost 50% more. I already expressed my anger at that. Now, Guy tells us that the manual that comes with those Leica filters states that «Leica 6-bit coded lenses are necessary for the use of this filter with LEICA M8» with future firmware.

 

If I understand correctly, first I'm told that I must use Leica filters to correct the magenta cast in firmware 1.10, then I'm told that those Leica filters will work only with 6-bit coded lenses with future firmware. Nowhere did I read «for better results.»

 

This what I mean by being held hostage and blackmailed. If I want to benefit from the improvements brought by future firmware, Leica tells me I will have to buy their products. It's not the future results that anger me, it's what Leica say today.

 

Robert, I use Heliopan and B+W filters, and they work, with Heliopan being the better of the two. And they work with non-Leica and non-coded lenses. But I'm worried that Leica's tweaking of firmware will change that. Why am I worried today? Because that's what Leica seem to be saying today. And I am disappointed and angered also because Leica does not sem to be working towards a menu implementation of lens and filter specifications, like I and many others had hoped. Why won't they do it?

[robsteve]

If I understand correctly, first I'm told that I must use Leica filters to correct the magenta cast in firmware 1.10, then I'm told that those Leica filters will work only with 6-bit coded lenses with future firmware. Nowhere did I read «for better results.

.

 

Olivier:

 

Leica told us all this info, Special Leica IR filter, coded lenses, and firmware were required back on November 9th. This was within days of the problems arising on the forum. Here is the quote and the original post is linked below. I cut out all the marketing speak and quoted the pertinent sentence in Christian Ernhart's statement:

 

"The filter is supplied as an accessory with a special firmware adjustment, which will be available shortly after the planned market launch of the camera at the end of November 2006.

 

The IR/UV filter is only suitable for use with digital M cameras and 6-bit coded lenses."

 

 

 

http://www.leica-camera-user.com/digital-forum/8937-official-leica-statements.html?highlight=Leica+statement+on+IR#post87924

 

 

Is there anything that Leica has said on November 8th that has changed other than the delivery date of the firmware corrections and filters?

[ho_co]

Olivier--

I think I understand your point. But all I'm saying is that IF Leica offers a product--say, a filter--they are not going to say, "but of course you can spend less and get comparable results."

 

Perhaps they shouldn't offer their own version of the filter at all, and should leave it to the local sales organization to say, "We recommend brand X filters."

 

But in a case like this, that would result in people using various brands and complaining. (I knew a woman who swore up and down that Epson printers were horridly inconsistent in print quality. Nobody could figure out what she was doing wrong until one day she mentioned that she always bought refurbished ink cartridges.)

 

You have a right to take Leica's comments negatively because you were pro-active and bought filters that let you start taking pictures immediately. You should pat yourself on the back. You would likely still be waiting if you had waited for the Leica brand.

 

On the other hand, I am very pleased with the fact that the company has given us a lot of information, and is taking a firm stance in moving to improve the camera by offering filters, by making rapid moves on firmware etc. (Cf Nikon--to get full benefit out of their 10.5mm fisheye, for example, you're supposed to buy their RAW software. And if you already had a previous version of their software, the new & improved version isn't a free upgrade.)

 

I think we are being treated much better by Leica than are a lot of customers of other brands. But you can certainly make your case as well. (And discussion is a lot more fun when someone actually can argue a point well, don't you think? )

 

--HC

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Oliver I am testing it right now and i can't say too much obviously but i can say i would not worry too much about the right filter certainly for the majority of lenses there is no issues at all. There maybe some final tweaks also that may even make it better. Let me add one thing nothing will change for the worse on this only the better with any filter in place. I just can't post images with it right now. I will be able to guide you guy's a little later but it is nothing earth shattering , just wait for it to hit the streets and you should be pleasantly surprised

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[tom0511]

Oh yes, its time to complain, because 1.10 is still not available.

Cheers, tom

 

Don't complain when you haven't tried it.

 

It is likely that firmware 1.10 will limit the cyan corners well. Later firmware may do a better job. But since neither is available, this isn't the time to complain.

 

Leica says you must use coded lenses and their filters, but that obviously simply means "for best results."

 

Olivier, Leica has brought out a great camera with a couple late-discovered faults. Correcting those faults is costing both Leica and us money. And Leica is keeping us well informed about progress.

 

Things are moving in the right direction: Leica has just confirmed that firmware will fix the red vignetting. Until Guy posted this thread, that was just a hopeful rumor.

 

If firmware 1.10 isn't perfect, remember that Leica has already told you it may not be. But don't complain about it before you try it.

 

The first time to wonder whether the Leica filters do work better than the ones you've got is when you try your filters and are displeased by the result. Indications are that there is little difference between brands.

 

And in any case, worrying about what might happen tomorrow does nothing but spoil today.

 

Respectfully,

--HC

[Guest tummydoc]

To put everyone's fears to rest: I am a Leica collector in a big way and have many lenses that aren't on Leica's list of codables. After exchanging 2 defective bodies I finally have (all fingers crossed) a working M8 I've been using for the past three weeks.

 

I have been using it exclusively with un-coded lenses and Heliopan filters except for one BW486 in one size, and I currently have firmware version 1.092 and shoot DNG, using C1-PRO and Photoshop CS2. Thursday I just received my 2 free Leica filters. Here's the deal:

 

1. Cyan corner drift is correctable with the free Panotools plug-in. It took me about 30 seconds to find the setting that works for each lens, and I've written an action for each. The only PITA is trying to identify and sort shots according to the lens used. In time I might hand-code my wide lenses with codes from un-used lenses in the 50mm and up range. That way I will be able to leave lens detection ON and get no cyan correction but just EXIF identification of each lens (even though not the correct info) that I can use only for sorting and batching. I somehow doubt that coding an un-codable with a substitute from the coded lens list will prove to be entirely effective with the built-in cyan correction, and unless it's entirely effective it's rather useless since I'll need to use Panotools anyway.

 

2. I find there is a very small difference between the colour balance with the Heliopan vs Leica IR filter but none with the BW, but it's an overall difference not specifially limited to the items affected by IR. Therefore I'm using a profile adjusted for the majority of my filters which are Heliopans, and with the BW or Leica filters it's a tiny tweak and only in some instances.

 

So my take is that neither Leica filters nor lens coding are in any way mandatory, but they are convenience options. They will be especially convenient for those shooting JPEG and/or uncomfortable with post-processing. Otherwise using Heliopan filters and uncoded lenses is less automated but the results obtainable in post-processing --easily and quickly--are identical.