k-hawinkler Posted April 12, 2013 Share #21 Posted April 12, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm glad they're going to fix the M9 finally! I hope you are right - but I am not holding my breath! Nevertheless, I am enjoying my M9 since using a Panasonic card and following certain workarounds. Not ideal but workable for me. I wonder though what the root cause for the intermittent problems in the M240 is. Any ideas? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 12, 2013 Posted April 12, 2013 Hi k-hawinkler, Take a look here M (240) freezes up and exposure issues. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
mjh Posted April 12, 2013 Share #22 Posted April 12, 2013 I wonder though what the root cause for the intermittent problems in the M240 is. Some obscure bug in the firmware code probably, so obscure that it wasn’t found and squashed during the beta test – unlike some other, more frequently occurring bugs that were squashed. Assuming Leica’s software developers know by now what’s going on and could explain the causes, we wouldn’t be any wiser if they did. Only fellow software developers would appreciate the finer points of how, exactly, some elusive bug was finally identified. I have found the current firmware to be pretty stable, but it isn’t that unusual for a bug or two to survive even the beta test. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
firstlight Posted April 12, 2013 Share #23 Posted April 12, 2013 Leica is the slowest company I've ever encountered. At least they are fixing the bugs and don't force there customers to buy the successor model for working properly Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlubis Posted April 12, 2013 Share #24 Posted April 12, 2013 Mine had just freezed up. I thought the battery was dead, back to normal only after taking out the battery. What happens? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted April 12, 2013 Share #25 Posted April 12, 2013 I had problems when I first got my 240 about a month ago. It turned out to be a brand new, never used Sandisk Extreme 45 MB/s card. I could reproduce the problems every time with that card but SanDisk Have not been able to find any fault, although they are sending me a new one (I have kept a record of the serial number so I can check). The M240 seems to be quite sensitive to any card issues. I also think it can get confused if you change too many settings. I have had to do a reset once on mine after it started to behave oddly. However it is very well behaved compared with early days on the M8, where mine used to lock up 3 or 4 times a day. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted April 12, 2013 Share #26 Posted April 12, 2013 I suspect Leica .....being based in a good and obedient north european country stick rigidly to the standards dictated by the SD card specification...... The cards in contrast are batch manufactured and sorted into 'speeds' by testing and the wizzy fast ones labelled with the inevitably misleading 45mb/sec etc etc and the also-rans progressively downgraded till the unreliable crap is dumped on your local pound store..... As the card is a procressor in its own right and has its own software its anyones guess how rigorously this follows the industry set standard .... and any fiddle that will increase speed and give you a marketing edge is a real temptation...... I'm sure thats where all the card inconsistencies come in .... not all are perfect and some probably run code that cuts corners and can cause problems under certain circumstances. If the card industry got their act together there wouldn't be a problem...... I am sure the whole business drives Leica nuts ....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHellow Posted April 13, 2013 Share #27 Posted April 13, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I had an e-mail exchange with Leica New Jersey about the freeze and the underexposure waking from sleep issue. They are working on a firmware fix for this. I provided them with card information and the like. I use the fastest memory cards available and still had those problems. JHellow Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted April 13, 2013 Share #28 Posted April 13, 2013 Which cards? Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted April 13, 2013 Share #29 Posted April 13, 2013 I suspect Leica .....being based in a good and obedient north european country stick rigidly to the standards dictated by the SD card specification...... The cards in contrast are batch manufactured and sorted into 'speeds' by testing and the wizzy fast ones labelled with the inevitably misleading 45mb/sec etc etc and the also-rans progressively downgraded till the unreliable crap is dumped on your local pound store..... As the card is a procressor in its own right and has its own software its anyones guess how rigorously this follows the industry set standard .... and any fiddle that will increase speed and give you a marketing edge is a real temptation...... I'm sure thats where all the card inconsistencies come in .... not all are perfect and some probably run code that cuts corners and can cause problems under certain circumstances. If the card industry got their act together there wouldn't be a problem...... I am sure the whole business drives Leica nuts ....... It all sounds logical but fails the common sense test. If what you are saying was true, then every camera maker would have these problems. However, after having owned numerous other brands and models I can honestly say I have not experienced this type of problem with SD cards on any other brand. Your description of what you think is the source of the problem is letting Leica off when they have consistently had SD card interface issues for years. The cheapest P&S doesn't exhibit these issues and if any engineering corners are cut by anyone it would be those vendors trying to cut costs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted April 13, 2013 Author Share #30 Posted April 13, 2013 It all sounds logical but fails the common sense test. If what you are saying was true, then every camera maker would have these problems. However, after having owned numerous other brands and models I can honestly say I have not experienced this type of problem with SD cards on any other brand. Your description of what you think is the source of the problem is letting Leica off when they have consistently had SD card interface issues for years. The cheapest P&S doesn't exhibit these issues and if any engineering corners are cut by anyone it would be those vendors trying to cut costs. agreed. The common denominator is always a Leica, not the card. I always buy quality cards, and have never experienced similar issues on other cameras. Its pretty clear where the problem lies, and its not in the card Im using. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yarosuav Posted April 13, 2013 Share #31 Posted April 13, 2013 I had problems when I first got my 240 about a month ago. It turned out to be a brand new, never used Sandisk Extreme 45 MB/s card. I could reproduce the problems every time with that card but SanDisk Have not been able to find any fault, although they are sending me a new one (I have kept a record of the serial number so I can check). The M240 seems to be quite sensitive to any card issues. I also think it can get confused if you change too many settings. I have had to do a reset once on mine after it started to behave oddly. However it is very well behaved compared with early days on the M8, where mine used to lock up 3 or 4 times a day. Wilson My Sandisk Extreme Pro cards (16 and 32 GB) were preventing my M from going to sleep. Since I replaced them with a Transcend card the issue seems to have gone away. I still need to spend more time to see if it's the case, but that's my impression after a couple of days. Go figure... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted April 13, 2013 Share #32 Posted April 13, 2013 There are generally differences in tolerances on interfaces by different manufacturers so you probably hit upon one whose tolerances are greater and so it works with the Leica and a card that is to tighter tolerances might not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHellow Posted April 13, 2013 Share #33 Posted April 13, 2013 Which cards?Thanks. Sandisk Extreme Pro 32gig 95mps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted April 13, 2013 Share #34 Posted April 13, 2013 I personally would rather put up with these card glitches and have the 240 than have waited until September and had a perfect camera. The fact that a company as small as Leica has come up with a camera as stunning as the 240 is amazing. The large companies such as Nikon and Canon will probably employ twice as many in just their R&D divisions as are employed in the whole of Leica. Buying a Leica is a bit like buying say a Maserati. You are getting something full of character that will give you lots of enjoyment but it is never going to be as faultless/seamless an experience as say a BMW, Porsche or Mercedes. The sensor issues (black lines) if they are sensor faults, are far more of a worry to me than the occasional lock up or anomalous behaviour. I am sure the latter will be sorted in an FW update very soon. With the sensor/dead pixel problem, either there is a fab issue at STC Micro in Grenoble or Leica has a pixel mapping problem. If it is just pixel mapping, they need to get a software/connection kit out to their national agencies as fast as possible, so that cameras don't have to go back to base for remapping. This is particularly important for the USA and far east, from where the journey back to Germany takes far longer. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted April 13, 2013 Share #35 Posted April 13, 2013 It all sounds logical but fails the common sense test. If what you are saying was true, then every camera maker would have these problems. However, after having owned numerous other brands and models I can honestly say I have not experienced this type of problem with SD cards on any other brand. Your description of what you think is the source of the problem is letting Leica off when they have consistently had SD card interface issues for years. The cheapest P&S doesn't exhibit these issues and if any engineering corners are cut by anyone it would be those vendors trying to cut costs. Yes, but you have to remember who's house your in John. Monochrom M banding is Jalopnik's fault. Still buggy M9 firmware (after 4 years and a nearly discontinued camera) happens to all initial firmware release. (?) Continued SD card problems and lock ups is the SD card manufacturers fault. Still hunting for someone to blame for the lug problem, but we'll find them. I love Leica, and continue to buy their products. But I buy my camera from them. Leica. They assume the responsibility when they take my money. They chose the sensor supplier and set up contracts regarding quality and supply, the same goes for every other problem. The buck stops with them when they cash my cheque. I'll take the flaming now. Gladly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 13, 2013 Share #36 Posted April 13, 2013 Monochrom M banding is Jalopnik's fault. Maybe,but Leica hired Jenoptik. Explanations are not the same as shifting blame. Still buggy M9 firmware (after 4 years and a nearly discontinued camera) happens to all initial firmware release. (?)D800 AF anybody?Continued SD card problems and lock ups is the SD card manufacturers fault.Maybe, maybe not. But it is remarkable that the SD card problems started after Sandisk changed their cards' spec and that other brands function without problem.Still hunting for someone to blame for the lug problem, but we'll find them.Which is why Leica sent the customer in question a mail that it was a production error, I suppose....I love Leica, and continue to buy their products.Which, from a business point of view, is the bottom line..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted April 13, 2013 Share #37 Posted April 13, 2013 Yeah I got the name wrong. Nullifies my whole point. Drat, what a pity. D800AF doesn't mitigate the blame. It rightly includes them in the focus of consumer dissatisfaction. You're right on the lugs. Just a shame it's a continued, some say decades old problem. I find your use of the singular "customer" a little ambiguous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 13, 2013 Share #38 Posted April 13, 2013 Yeah I got the name wrong. Nullifies my whole point. Drat, what a pity. Huh?? What has a typo to do with corporate responsibility? If I understand your point correctly, I was agreeing. And pointing out that Jenoptic was brought up in response to uninformed Leica has no digital experience posts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted April 13, 2013 Share #39 Posted April 13, 2013 Yes, I've misunderstood your first line Jaap. My apologies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 13, 2013 Share #40 Posted April 13, 2013 I find your use of the singular "customer" a little ambiguous.Has to be; on the M it is the only case we know of I think. Previous cases on the M6 through the M9 always involved stripped threads, this one simply unscrewed. If it was a production error we can assume that Leica is investigating, any producer would do so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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