thighslapper Posted April 27, 2013 Share #141 Posted April 27, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) M240: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/201589-comparison-of-m9-and-m240/?do=findComment&comment=2308763'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 27, 2013 Posted April 27, 2013 Hi thighslapper, Take a look here Comparison of M9 and M240. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
thighslapper Posted April 27, 2013 Share #142 Posted April 27, 2013 Outdoors in rather overcast light, Auto WB, Daylight, WB based on window frame, WB based on window frame with +15 red primary ... possibly a bit better... M9 first: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/201589-comparison-of-m9-and-m240/?do=findComment&comment=2308773'>More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted April 27, 2013 Share #143 Posted April 27, 2013 M240: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/201589-comparison-of-m9-and-m240/?do=findComment&comment=2308777'>More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted April 27, 2013 Share #144 Posted April 27, 2013 Well, I'm none the wiser ...... Judgement is slightly clouded by the erratic WB on the M240 ... and yet again, if you dial in the M9 settings into the M240 images you get almost identical results .... which makes me think the Leica default settings are a mistake rather than a bizarre choice .. ..... .........and there are very noticeable variations from the original LR generated jpegs and the displayed images on the forum.... and it varies between browsers..... reds (M240) and magentas (M9) seem accentuated and the actual differences on the DNG's is not as marked. The subject matter is challenging and the 'real world' conditions not ideal and as a result neither camera produces perfect results .... even after a bit of fiddling. The final corrected images are pretty close to life .... and which is 'best' or 'correct' is down to personal taste. I have posted some of the uncropped DNG originals here ..... the nearest to 'correct' of each of the pairs ..... https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8936627/m9%20lights%20wb%20tungsten.DNG https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8936627/m240%20lights%20wb%20auto.DNG https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8936627/m9%20indoor%20wb%20daylight.DNG https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8936627/m240%20indoor%20wb%20auto.DNG https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8936627/m9%20outdoor%20wb%20daylight.DNG https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8936627/m240%20outdoor%20wb%20daylight.DNG You will notice ... particularly in LR4 ..... using the 'adobe standard' instead of the 'embedded profile' a lot of the red vanishes ... but in some images this leaves the rest of the skin waxy and yellow .... Increasing 'Red Primary Hue' in LR4 seems to get rid of red ...... which is confusing .... I really must read the manual sometime ... Have a play and see what you think..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted April 27, 2013 Share #145 Posted April 27, 2013 ps. the sitter is a retired professional photographer... who because of he is an impoverished pensioner has to use a crappy Fuji P&S. He would really like a Leica. If you feel you can help financially, or have an old Leica he can have, please PM me with the heading 'Thighslapper Senior - Leica Appeal' and I will tell you how to donate..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted April 27, 2013 Share #146 Posted April 27, 2013 I'll bite 1. the presets and AWB of the M is more erratic than the M9 2. fundamentally the M produces much better skin tones in this old guy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted April 27, 2013 Share #147 Posted April 27, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'll bite too - Looking at these with the default import settings I use with the M-240, they're more than useable, and I prefer them to the M9... However, I'll add that at the moment I'm working with a new Dell U2413 monitor and am waiting for my X-rite IDisplay pro to turn up so I can do a full calibration rather than working with the (pretty good) factory defaults... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted April 27, 2013 Share #148 Posted April 27, 2013 Mr T, thanks very much for taking the time and trouble to post these examples for us to play with. Dinner soon, so tomorrow I'll have a good look... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted April 27, 2013 Share #149 Posted April 27, 2013 I'll bite too - Looking at these with the default import settings I use with the M-240, they're more than useable, and I prefer them to the M9... However, I'll add that at the moment I'm working with a new Dell U2413 monitor and am waiting for my X-rite IDisplay pro to turn up so I can do a full calibration rather than working with the (pretty good) factory defaults... Yes....... whereas most things will look ok on most displays .... skin tones show up the slightest miscalibration ..... which is why I feel that posting jpegs on the forum doesn't even tell half the story..... On balance, ignoring the WB issue, I prefer ... and feel, the corrected M240 images are closer to the real thing...... but that's only my opinion...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Chen Posted May 1, 2013 Share #150 Posted May 1, 2013 a new Dell U2413 monitor and am waiting for my X-rite IDisplay pro to turn up so I can do a full calibration rather than working with the (pretty good) factory defaults... Chris, I always have trouble browsing the image respectively by my Dell 2711 and Apple McBook Pro + Retina dispaly, as they present different color rendition towards an identical file. Therefore, I'm considering to buy a X-rite IDisplay pro for monitor calibration. In case you can do calibration by the X-rite on both your Dell 2413 as well as Apple i-Pad (retina display), then I will follow suit. Thanks. Best, Thomas Chen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1JB Posted May 1, 2013 Share #151 Posted May 1, 2013 Clearly the AWB on the M is off. What color was the pullover he was wearing? In the M9 shots it seems to be closer to a deep blue but in the M shots it seems to be closer to purple? It also seems to go through more shifts in hues as the settings were changed on the M in comparison to the M9. As far as the skin tones go I prefer those of the M9. The M skin seems oversaturated in the reds with them just jumping out. There seems to be a poorer gradation to the reds as well. If you follow the reds from the vertical lines on either side of the nose out, the gradation seems harsh. Ther is also a sallow yellow quality to the lighter areas under the eyes and along the jaw line. The white frame seems more consistent on the M9 to my eye. That first shot with the AWB by the M is off to a surprising degree. I would not want to spend the time performing isolated corrections to the first shot by the M which would seem necessary to get each tone and hue correct from the face, to the white, the bricks and pullover. I don't know what I would do with the difficult gradations of red on the face of the M. My eye keeps getting hung up on specific areas to the face where the reds jump out whereas on the M9 prints I can look at the overall face with less difficulty. There just seems to be more consistency to the tonal ranges and hues of the colors in the various settings used on the M9. I don't know what what would happen between my monitor and my printer but I would antiicpate a new profile for my printer as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 2, 2013 Share #152 Posted May 2, 2013 ...That first shot with the AWB by the M is off to a surprising degree. I would not want to spend the time performing isolated corrections to the first shot by the M which would seem necessary... One simple click in iCorrect on the window's white paint or the man's white hair can improve things a lot. Here or the whitest part of the hair. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/201589-comparison-of-m9-and-m240/?do=findComment&comment=2312463'>More sharing options...
01af Posted May 2, 2013 Share #153 Posted May 2, 2013 One simple click in iCorrect on the window's white paint or the man's white hair can improve things a lot. Here or the whitest part of the hair. I don't see how anything's 'improved.' To the contrary—after the white balance correction, the mess becomes even more obvious Moreover, those who shoot a thousand or more frames on one assignment have better things to do than to sit through thousands of 'simple one-click corrections.' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 2, 2013 Share #154 Posted May 2, 2013 Good enough for me when raw files are not available including for my legal pics when i'm in a hurry. At my modest level of requirement, i never rely on AWB whichever camera i use and i'm surprised to see that more demanding photogs can simply think of doing it, but it's just me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted May 2, 2013 Share #155 Posted May 2, 2013 I never rely on AWB whichever camera I use ... Neither do I. I never understood why people would want, or actually use, AWB in the first place. It does more harm than good. But white balance is not really the problem with the digital Leicas. Lack of colour integrity is. I sincerely wish Leica Camera would hire someone with some expertise in this field. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 2, 2013 Share #156 Posted May 2, 2013 One simple click in iCorrect on the window's white paint or the man's white hair can improve things a lot. Here or the whitest part of the hair. Depends on the shampoo he is using. Most grey hair ones have blue or violet filters added. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 2, 2013 Share #157 Posted May 2, 2013 Depends on the shampoo he is using. Most grey hair ones have blue or violet filters added. Better doing this on pics you take yourself of course and there is a bit of learning curve as always but it works on jpegs for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 2, 2013 Share #158 Posted May 2, 2013 ...white balance is not really the problem with the digital Leicas. Lack of colour integrity is. I sincerely wish Leica Camera would hire someone with some expertise in this field. Perhaps true for the M9 that i don't like much but my M8.2 with UV/IR filters is my favorite camera colour wise so i would not generalize as you do. I'll see if there is a significant difference with the M240 when i receive the body but letting hopeless (to me) WB problems aside, my feeling about Jono's, Chris' and others' DNG files is positive so far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted May 2, 2013 Share #159 Posted May 2, 2013 ... but my M8.2 with UV/IR filters is my favorite camera colour wise ... Indeed? Oh. That reminds me I always wanted to try if (caucasian) skin tone rendition would get any better under tungsten or mixed light when using an UV/IR-cut filter on the M9. In fact, I have acquired a (used) UV/IR filter for this purpose months ago but haven't come around to try it yet ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 2, 2013 Share #160 Posted May 2, 2013 It does. Particularly in light with a high IR content.( obviously) As the M appears to have an18% IR transmission ( not bad at all ) a filter should have a positive effect there as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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