Rayappa Posted March 28, 2013 Share #1 Posted March 28, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi everyone! I am a surgeon. I recently bought Leica D-Lux 6 for taking intraoperative pictures as I am interested in writing a surgical atlas. I am trying out different ways to get good pictures. The pictures are taken from a distance of 1 to 2 feet and the photographs cover the area of head and neck (maximum area of 12 x 12 inches). The site will have muscle, bone and blood vessels. We have tungsten or incandescent light on top. I switch of those lights and use camera's flash. I am still not getting the desired result. I get better result with the camera in iPhone 5. Kindly help. Thanks Rayappa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 28, 2013 Posted March 28, 2013 Hi Rayappa, Take a look here Pictures taken during surgery. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Jerren Posted March 28, 2013 Share #2 Posted March 28, 2013 Hi everyone! I am a surgeon. I recently bought Leica D-Lux 6 for taking intraoperative pictures as I am interested in writing a surgical atlas. I am trying out different ways to get good pictures. The pictures are taken from a distance of 1 to 2 feet and the photographs cover the area of head and neck (maximum area of 12 x 12 inches). The site will have muscle, bone and blood vessels. We have tungsten or incandescent light on top. I switch of those lights and use camera's flash. I am still not getting the desired result. I get better result with the camera in iPhone 5. Kindly help. Thanks Rayappa Welcome to the forum! I'm not familiar with the D-Lux 6 at all. However, for a photo to work, we need light. The more light you have available to you, the easier it would be to make the image you are lookign for. I would suggest not cutting the lights off as that only makes it harder for your camera to focus and make an exposure. If it is allowed, I'd suggest cutting on all those bright surgical lights that you guys use. I would imagine you wouldn't even need to use the flash then. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted March 28, 2013 Share #3 Posted March 28, 2013 It would help to know in what ways are the photos unsatisfactory. Color quality? Focus? And is this intraoral surgery? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted March 29, 2013 Share #4 Posted March 29, 2013 My first impression of your surgery is mandipular resection. Am I right? ( forgive misspelling - iPhone thinks it is smarter than myself ) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madNbad Posted March 29, 2013 Share #5 Posted March 29, 2013 Try the Kelvin scale. It will allow you to adjust the white balance precisely. Panny hasn't included a surgery mode in the selector yet. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl G Posted March 29, 2013 Share #6 Posted March 29, 2013 The d-lux 6 will make very respectable shots for you. You need to shot with the operative field lit and if you shoot a white card you can adjust the colors in post processing. A good place to start would be a simple primer on digital photography. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 29, 2013 Share #7 Posted March 29, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Not wanting to be dismissive of the Digilux, which is a fine camera, but good surgical. photography takes something else. I.e a longish (100-200 mm eq.) lens, a ring flash and a camera you can use when wrapped in an infection barrier, meaning a DSLR with autofocus. The images are best taken by an assistant. I am, assuming you want your illustrations looking better than snaps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayappa Posted March 29, 2013 Author Share #8 Posted March 29, 2013 It would help to know in what ways are the photos unsatisfactory. Color quality? Focus? And is this intraoral surgery? Thanks. Mainly the focus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayappa Posted March 29, 2013 Author Share #9 Posted March 29, 2013 Mostly open procedures. I am not doing intraoral pictures as there is no ring flash. Any trick for intraoral picture with this camera? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayappa Posted March 29, 2013 Author Share #10 Posted March 29, 2013 You are right. Any suggestion? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayappa Posted March 29, 2013 Author Share #11 Posted March 29, 2013 Thanks. i will try Kelvin scale. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted March 29, 2013 Share #12 Posted March 29, 2013 Rayappa, welcome to the forum. I have D-Lux 5. But it is not so much a camera issue as white balance. Keep all your available lighting. If it is good enough for surgical operations it is likely to be good enough for photography. Learn from your manual how to shoot a grey card, such as WhiBal or Pantone ColorChecker. Nowadays I use the latter. You find in the menu an option for setting a custom white balance. Thereafter, for shots under identical lighting, you will have much more consistent and accurate colour rendering. Remember to reset it when shooting outside the theatre. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted March 29, 2013 Share #13 Posted March 29, 2013 The d-lux 6 will make very respectable shots for you. You need to shot with the operative field lit and if you shoot a white card you can adjust the colors in post processing. Some medical publishers and some fields of medicine dictate that the operating lights be turned off when making photographs and I do not know why. It makes no sense to me. Operating lights are supposed to follow an international standard for many things, including light temperature. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted March 29, 2013 Share #14 Posted March 29, 2013 Not wanting to be dismissive of the Digilux, which is a fine camera, but good surgical. photography takes something else. I.e a longish (100-200 mm eq.) lens, a ring flash and a camera you can use when wrapped in an infection barrier, meaning a DSLR with autofocus.The images are best taken by an assistant. I am, assuming you want your illustrations looking better than snaps. Our procedure was to have several extra pairs of loose over-gloves - gloves that go over the first pair. They were changed every time a surgeon wanted to pick up the camera. What a royal pain! I agree that it is best to have a competent assistant do the photography. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted April 2, 2013 Share #15 Posted April 2, 2013 I had a laparoscopic appendicectomy recently but I'm afraid I neglected to take my camera into the OR to get even some pre-op pics! The D-Lux 6 is a fine camera and should be up to the task. It is compact and very easy to use and won't get in the way. The smaller sensor results in greater depth-of-field, which should mean everything is in focus. Do ensure the camera is on the macro setting for close-ups. I wouldn't use flash. There should be plenty of available light. Automatic white balance should be fine. If you are not happy with the colors, choose a setting for artificial lighting from the menu. Set the top dial to P for program. ISO 100, 200, or 400 should be sufficient. Do watch the shutter speed and aperture readings on the LCD and make sure the shutter speed is as fast as possible -- at least 1/50, preferably over 1/125. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 2, 2013 Share #16 Posted April 2, 2013 (edited) Mostly open procedures. I am not doing intraoral pictures as there is no ring flash. Any trick for intraoral picture with this camera? There are more cavities than just the mouth during surgery, as it usually takes place inside the body. Shadowless (i.e. ring) flash is nearly always desirable. The problem one needs to overcome are the shadows produced by the operating light. Ambient light is always problematical with medical photography. The trick for intraoral photography is a long focal length (at least 100 mm eq, preferably more, 150-200 is optimal. Otherwise the perspective will be unnatural, and a good flash. I use the Digilux 3 with a 2x extender on the standard zoom at full extension and the Olympus ring flash. Manual focus works best. AF will hunt, unless you manage to place the focus point precisely. The mirrors and lip holders for that specific specialty are available through Henry Schein. Edited April 4, 2013 by jaapv Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 2, 2013 Share #17 Posted April 2, 2013 Some medical publishers and some fields of medicine dictate that the operating lights be turned off when making photographs and I do not know why. It makes no sense to me. Operating lights are supposed to follow an international standard for many things, including light temperature.As I mentioned, deep shadows. You want flat, shadowless light. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted April 2, 2013 Share #18 Posted April 2, 2013 (edited) I had a laparoscopic appendicectomy recently but I'm afraid I neglected to take my camera into the OR to get even some pre-op pics! when I had a hand injury, which included a fix for an amputation of a thumb, the surgery was done at the properly esteemed Mayo Clinic which is a teaching establishment so students flocked to the operating theater to learn. The anesthetist explained how I would be put to sleep and I interrupted her to say That i would prefer a nerve block so I could be awake. A talented young man performed the block exactly as I had observed as a medic. He did a perfect block. I was also loaded with painkillers, rather silly, and asked for my camera. The surgeon said something I knew was code and my motivation to make pictures evaporated as the Anesthetist put another needle into the stent. Damn! An aside: late arriving students did not immediately notice that I was not under general anesthesia. Stupid then. "Jesus, that is one •uped up hand" is one remark I recall. Edited April 2, 2013 by pico 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hepcat Posted April 3, 2013 Share #19 Posted April 3, 2013 (edited) There are more cavities than just the mouth during surgery, as it usually takes place inside the body. Shadowless (i.e. ring) flash is nearly always desirable. The problem one needs to overcome are the shadows produced by the operating light. Ambient light is always problematical with medical photography. The trick for intraoral photography is a long focal length (at least10 mm eq, preferably more, 150-200 is optimal. Otherwise the perspective will be unnatural, and a good flash. I use the Digilux 3 with a 2x extender on the standard zoom at full extension and the Olympus ring flash. Manual focus works best. AF will hunt, unless you manage to place the focus point precisely. I concur. I used a ring light exclusively with a focal length of a minimum of 105-150mm and manual focus. Depending on the working distance from the field, I've also used high quality +1 or +2 close-up filters in conjunction with the lens. From my experience, having someone in the room who is dedicated solely to making the photographs yields the best results as their concentration is not distracted by other needs, and the photographer doesn't need to touch the field. A complete understanding of what needs to be illustrated, good two-way communication, and cooperation is also essential. Medical photography is a fairly specialized task. A point & shoot camera (regardless of how competent it is) is really not the best tool for this task. This is a task where a properly equipped, competent DSLR would really make the job much easier. Edited April 3, 2013 by hepcat Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsw Posted April 3, 2013 Share #20 Posted April 3, 2013 Yeah, I used to tell my wife that the new Leica was for the OR too! hahaha I get very satisfactory results with my LX7(D-Lux6) in the OR with the surgical lights averted away from the direct field and the camera's flash dialed down all the way (-3EV I think). But I'm not making an atlas. I would agree with those above who suggest a ~100mm lens and DLSR with ring flash; your images have to be a step above what the D-Lux can realistically deliver and you don't want to spend a lot of time retaking shots during the case. I don't know if you're near a University, but using head & neck cadaver specimens you can then light the particular areas much better than any intraoperative setting and those pictures are usually quite stunning for atlases. There is much less glare to contend with from the moist surfaces and that's what's causing most your problem. Just a thought. At any rate, welcome to the forum. Get out of the OR and do some great travel shots with your D-Lux 6 for us! Cheers, Henry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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