scott kirkpatrick Posted March 23, 2013 Share #1 Â Posted March 23, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) As a potential 2014 M(240) owner interested in using lenses longer than 75mm and of exotic focal lengths, especially Leicaflex R lenses, I am puzzled by some of the terminology that I see in E-Bay, KEH and this forum's ads. Would one of the cognoscenti be willing to put together a potted history that explains how the evolution of the R series from its Minolta (?) origins to the R8, R9 and DMR gave rise to features like "3cam" and "7,8,9" designations, ROM-equipped, short back-focus... that appear in descriptions. And which models of each of the two APO extenders (1.4X, 2X) work with which of the 180 and 280 telephotos? Â Finally, since macro capability now becomes possible, any comments on the differences between the R60/2.8 Macro-Elmarit and the R100 APO Macro-Elmarit? Â scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 23, 2013 Posted March 23, 2013 Hi scott kirkpatrick, Take a look here Please explain Leica R terminology. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
andyedward Posted March 23, 2013 Share #2 Â Posted March 23, 2013 Scott, it seems you have enough basic knowledge to do your own research on the R system. There is an R section on this forum, which includes an ongoing thread on both 60 and 100 macros. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
masjah Posted March 23, 2013 Share #3 Â Posted March 23, 2013 Scott, can I suggest Leica Reflex Photography by Brian Bower (New Edition, David & Charles, ISBN 0 7153 0627 8) which, together with the appropriate section of the Leica Wiki on this Forum, will tell you all you need to know. In particular, the first chapter of the book gives a potted history of the reflex system, together with several appendices and tables (including on cams) towards the back of the book. In effect, he has done the job which you are suggexting. I suspect the book is now out of print, but shouldn't be too difficult to obtain. Make sure you get the later edition though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted March 23, 2013 Share #4  Posted March 23, 2013 The Leica Pocket Book 8th Edition will answer some of your questions and it's a wonderful potted history of all Leica cameras and Leitz and Leica lenses.  The book includes performance data for nearly every lens including those you are interested in.  Best wishes  dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted March 23, 2013 Share #5 Â Posted March 23, 2013 Just goes to show. And here I thought "R" stood for Remarkable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamey Posted March 24, 2013 Share #6 Â Posted March 24, 2013 Just goes to show. And here I thought "R" stood for Remarkable. Â They were. Â Ken. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted March 25, 2013 Share #7  Posted March 25, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) They were. Ken.  They still are on the M too! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamey Posted March 25, 2013 Share #8 Â Posted March 25, 2013 They still are on the M too! Â I will not argue on that...Lol. Â Actually I am eagerly waiting for some body to post some results with the M240 using R lenses. Â Ken Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted March 25, 2013 Share #9  Posted March 25, 2013 A short history lesson.  R3, Leica revised Minolta camera R4 & 5 Removed the mirror dampening system. Avoid. Dark finders. 5 was electronic. R6 and 6.2 fully mechanical with mirror dampening returned. Top of the heap as far as I am concerned. 6.2 has higher top shutter speed R7 Auto exposure added with improved electronics, much improved r 5 R8 & 9 Bigger body with nice ergonomics 8 had some film scratching issues easily resolved  4/9 all had interchangeable focus screens. 6+ had mirror prerelease function  R3 and up needs 3 cam lenses to meter or a lens with 3 rd cam installed. No others required. 2 cam was for SL and SL2 metering.  ROM is read only chip to transmit actual light variation from nominal f stop and feed it to camera computer for extremely precise exposure on R8 & 9. Rom lenses not required for 8 & 9, but supposedly improved them. There may be some focus distance provided to flash. Can not remember.  60 or 100 mm. 100 APO is a first class apo corrected lens that is my favorite. Sharp as can be close and far . World Class lens as are the 180 2 & 2.8 and 280 2.8 and 4.0 .  60 is simply very very good. In practice you need to be closer to a macro subject and the background taken in will be wider. I use mine as a normal lens. Sharp near and far, any stop.  240 the R solution. I think not. Last week I finished converting all the r lenses to Nikon mounts and they will be used on Nikon DSLR with optical viewfinders. The set includes 21, 28PC & 35 PC, 60 and 100 APO. Also used are 90 2.8 and 135 4 and 2.8, 200 and 280 from the viso system. Simple adapter required.  (Deleted - See my PM for reason - Stuart Nordheimer)   I have no interest in TC converters.  There is much more to learn, but I can not be expected to write a book . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted March 25, 2013 Share #10 Â Posted March 25, 2013 Pretty well any R glass that was designed and introduced from the mid 1990's is pretty stellar. You can also not go wrong with any R glass that has APO or APSH in the description. Â Of the older R glass, you might as well just get the equivalent lens in the M range. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted March 25, 2013 Share #11 Â Posted March 25, 2013 Just to add to/correct the post by Tobey, the R3 and the later R4 were joint ventures with Minolta, using the base body/components from Minolta which Leica developed to their own design. In particular, the shutter of the R3 is unique and if you ever try one you'll find what a superb feel it has. Â All the R models, apart from the R6/6.2 are electronic. Â If you're looking to buy an R camera I'd personally suggest the R3, or R6/6.2, or R8/9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted March 25, 2013 Share #12 Â Posted March 25, 2013 ... which models of each of the two APO extenders (1.4X, 2X) work with which of the 180 and 280 telephotos? Â The 2x APO extenders - both ROM and non-ROM - will work with any of the 180mm and 280mm lenses (180mm APO-Summicron needs to be stopped down IIRC). The 1.4x extender will work with the 280mm lenses and late model 180mm APO-Elmarit-R, or early 180mm APO-Elmarit-R that had been modified to accept the 1.4x extender. IDK about the 1.4x and APO-Summicron-R. The 1.4x will not work with the 180mm f/3.4 APO-Telyt-R. Â All the R models, apart from the R6/6.2 are electronic. Â The R6 and R6.2 have an electronic self-timer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
naturephoto1 Posted March 25, 2013 Share #13 Â Posted March 25, 2013 The R7 has a separate mirror pre release (special pre-release was made for this or through a 2nd cable release) absent from the previous automatic R3 through R5 and RE. I am not sure if this feature is available on either the R6 or R6.2. Â Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted March 25, 2013 Share #14 Â Posted March 25, 2013 Â The R6 and R6.2 have an electronic self-timer. Â Well yes and all have electronic meters, but I was talking about the shutter in this case. The R6/6.2 could be used fully without batteries. The others have one or two mechanical speeds (usually the flash sync speed and . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_parker Posted June 3, 2013 Share #15 Â Posted June 3, 2013 In particular, the shutter of the R3 is unique and if you ever try one you'll find what a superb feel it has.quote] Â The R3 shutter has a particular sound, which is unique and evokes memories of watching 'The Professionals' on the TV in the 1970's..... Â It's worth noting that many prize the Leicaflex cameras (which were the forerunners to the R series cameras), for their viewfinder, which is probably only surpassed by the R8 or R9 viewfinders, although some still prefer their Leicaflex. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
masjah Posted June 3, 2013 Share #16 Â Posted June 3, 2013 Well, I use an R8 and R9, and their viewfinders are indeed really very good. But I have had the opportunity to look through an SL2 viewfinder, and it is truly remarkable, somewhat better IMO than the R8 and R9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted June 14, 2013 Share #17 Â Posted June 14, 2013 Just add something: Â The R4 and R5 models have of course the "Spiegelschleifengetriebe" or, as it is called here, the "mirror damping system". Both cameras, I use R4 models by myself, are still enjoyable cameras. Â regards, Â Torsten Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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