jaapv Posted February 18, 2013 Share #1 Posted February 18, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Not the most convincing of fakes... German Leica Camera : Lot 35 It bears a Leica I number.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 Hi jaapv, Take a look here 2500$ ?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
sabears Posted February 18, 2013 Share #2 Posted February 18, 2013 What a crap! cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 18, 2013 Author Share #3 Posted February 18, 2013 Because they introduced the word "German" in the title they can be held legally responsible for false description too..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted February 18, 2013 Share #4 Posted February 18, 2013 And, note, the Auction House DOES inform that some of the items can be not original... "NO GUARANTEE OF AUTHENTICITY FOR CHINESE STAMPS, COIN, AND PAPER CURRENCY" Not quoting cameras... so we can suppose they intend that those indecent fake IS a Leica... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabears Posted February 18, 2013 Share #5 Posted February 18, 2013 Would be nice to know what happens if one buys it and then dispute the purchase Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
someonenameddavid Posted February 20, 2013 Share #6 Posted February 20, 2013 Would be nice to know what happens if one buys it and then dispute the purchase I sent them an email informing them that it was a Russian camera modified with the intention of deceiving ignorant purchasers. I will report here if they respond. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted February 20, 2013 Share #7 Posted February 20, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Aren't they committing fraud? As an auction house they should be authenticating the items they offer. How the hell did they come up with their estimate?! I might do a quick painting of some Sunflowers and ask them to sell it for me............... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 20, 2013 Author Share #8 Posted February 20, 2013 I sent them an email informing them that it was a Russian camera modified with the intention of deceiving ignorant purchasers. I will report here if they respond. David I did the same. They responded with a request for written proof. I sent them a mail starting: "I don't know where to begin.." and listed a dozen reasons. No response... Still zero bids of course - what a bunch of losers. Click " similar items by the same seller" A beat-up iii c estimated @ 2000-3000$ An R3 estimated @ 500-1000$...etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted February 21, 2013 Share #9 Posted February 21, 2013 The IIIc of lot 34 looks original, but there is a strange black ring (a filter adapter?) over its Summitar, which makes impossible to see the s/n of the lens itself... ... no comment about the evaluation... : I wonder which kind of collectors they hope to attract with such presentations... (there is also a "Rollicord"...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted February 21, 2013 Share #10 Posted February 21, 2013 I sent a mail to them... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted February 21, 2013 Share #11 Posted February 21, 2013 Nice stuff they have! Seen the R3? What is that stuck in the lens throat? I wouldn't touch any of their lots with the proverbial bargepole. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted February 21, 2013 Share #12 Posted February 21, 2013 Nice stuff they have! Seen the R3? What is that stuck in the lens throat? I wouldn't touch any of their lots with the proverbial bargepole. I suppose a hand made split-image RF... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted February 21, 2013 Share #13 Posted February 21, 2013 I am not allowed, I think, to paste here their answer but substancially they said "it is the bidder to make its own research about the genuity of the items..." and they told that "if I have some serious documents to forward them..." no comments Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted February 21, 2013 Share #14 Posted February 21, 2013 That's basically fraud. Clearly the buyer has to go on their description of the goods. They wouldn't be allowed to offer a painting by say Monet, unless they could prove it as such. Not the kind of people anyone should do business with! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabears Posted February 21, 2013 Share #15 Posted February 21, 2013 As far as I understand that auction house is totally a shame, expecially for the honest in the field... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share #16 Posted February 21, 2013 I am not allowed, I think, to paste here their answer but substancially they said "it is the bidder to make its own research about the genuity of the items..."and they told that "if I have some serious documents to forward them..." no comments Oh- you can paste it, it is a copy-paste from the one sent to me judging by the excerpt... From their website: Altair Auctions cannot guarantee any of the lot number descriptions, illustrations, and conditions are provided as reference. All items sold as is, no returns. Hmmm... sounds like a non-enforcable condition of sale to me. But it describes their attitude well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iphoenix Posted February 23, 2013 Share #17 Posted February 23, 2013 I see they are located in Norwood, Massachusetts. Anyone know what the State or U.S. Federal consumer laws covering Auction houses are? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
antoninus Posted February 23, 2013 Share #18 Posted February 23, 2013 I also sent an email to the auction house. It's clear that they have no intention of changing the description of what many recognize as a fake Leica. If they were selling fake Gucci shoes, they would likely be shut down. However, fake Leica cameras continue to be offered no one seems to care very much. Here's the response to my email: Hello, Please be advised that it is the responsibility of the bidder to inspect all items to his/her satisfaction before placing legally binding bids on lots for sale on LiveAuctioneers. That said, if you are able to forward to us written documentation confirming your suspicion that an item listed on our site was not as described, we can forward the information to the auction house and start an investigation. Regards, LiveAuctioneers Staff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share #19 Posted February 23, 2013 Yes. That is their standard reply.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted February 23, 2013 Share #20 Posted February 23, 2013 I don't think a bid can be legally binding if one subsequently finds out that the said item was fake and mis-sold......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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