Monochrom Banding Normal?

[charlesphoto99]

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No signs of banding in my new Monochrom even when files aggressively pushed at all iso's. Using a 16gb Sandisk Extreme 45/mbs card that was nicely included with the purchase from Maison du Leica in Paris. Have yet to try other cards (I run 16gb Panasonic Golds in my M9s and Nikons).

 

But yeah, if this was happening to me I'd be pissed and want answers and repair/replacement from Leica. No excuses. Do try other cards though.

[raumplan]

No signs of banding in my new Monochrom even when files aggressively pushed at all iso's. Using a 16gb Sandisk Extreme 45/mbs card that was nicely included with the purchase from Maison du Leica in Paris. Have yet to try other cards (I run 16gb Panasonic Golds in my M9s and Nikons).

 

But yeah, if this was happening to me I'd be pissed and want answers and repair/replacement from Leica. No excuses. Do try other cards though.

 

the banding appears in base iso 320 when shooting while the card is writing, congratulations if your MM is not behaving this way.

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[charlesphoto99]

Have you tried different cards?

[jaapv]

The banding I saw in three shots, taken in rapid succession at an ambient temperature of -10 centigrade. The card was a Panasonic Gold class 10. To me that suggests a power drop. Is the banding linked to the use of older batteries, maybe?

[k-hawinkler]

The banding I saw in three shots, taken in rapid succession at an ambient temperature of -10 centigrade. The card was a Panasonic Gold class 10. To me that suggests a power drop. Is the banding linked to the use of older batteries, maybe?

 

 

More likely is the MM doesn't manage power correctly.

That possibly seems to be inherited from the M9.

My M9 certainly has that problem.

That's why I use Panasonic cards in order to avoid catastrophic failures.

From what I read here, some MMs seem to have more subtle deficiences.

Deficiences, none the less that Leica needs to fix.

[jaapv]

Well, yes, that is close to my theory. Being an M9, it is no surprise that the Monochrom has the same foibles.

[raumplan]

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Tried various types of cards, battery is fully charged, ambient temperature is normal.

 

banding does exist. same as previous posts in this thread where extensive tests were done.

 

Hopefully Leica will really investigate this and come up with a firmware to address the problem.

Edited April 11, 2013 by raumplan

[jaapv]

Tried various types of cards, battery is fully charged, ambient temperature is normal.

 

banding does exist. same as previous posts in this thread where extensive tests were done.

 

Hopefully Leica will really investigate this and come up with a firmware to address the problem.

It seems to vary per camera. Mine only does so when stressed, and even then very rarely.

It is reminiscent of the SD card problem, that did not appear on all cameras and seems to have been power-related.

[IkarusJohn]

I daren't look,

[raumplan]

I encourage that those of you who are in London or the UK region and are experiencing this Base iso 320 banding problem while shooting in buffer, or frozen camera in discreet mode, please report your case to Leica Customer support UK.

 

Leica have been responsive in responding emails but both their Leica Germany and London Customer support have not been able to replicate this problem and I was advised by them that there really isn't much they can do. While these problems may not happen to 100% of MM, they are happening to a number of us here at least. The more of us report the problems the better...

[anupmc]

With just under 1,000 shots on my MM so far, I've encountered exactly ONE instance of banding occurring at ISO320 in raised shadows; a shot that was taken with a fresh fully charged battery and not while the buffer was clearing... (BUT I was using a SanDisk Extreme Pro 32GB SD card).

 

An acceptable number IMHO, and I haven't been able to replicate the problem... but I've replaced the SD card with a Panasonic one anyway.... Let's see how it goes.

[jffielde]

I am afraid that I'm about to receive disastrous news, but I'm out of town until Monday and can't be certain.

 

I received notification of shipment of my Monochrom back to me. Since I haven't heard a peep in weeks, I thought it was a bad sign that no one wanted to give me disappointing news in person. I gave them a call and they said that Leica US and three departments in Leica Germany haven't indicated any steps that were taken to address the banding after thorough analysis and testing. If anything was done, she cannot see it on the service form.

 

I can only assume that means they cannot fix the problem, which must be too widespread to admit as a defect. Unfortunately, I cannot accept that an an answer. I cannot agree that a camera under warranty won't be fixed by the manufacturer when it is defective to the point I can't sell it to someone else. That's an absurd position to ask of a customer.

 

I'm going to ask them when I return if they'll accept $2,000 to take the camera back and sell it as a refurb and provide me with a new camera. I know that's a preposterous offer on my part, but going to the trouble of suing them costs me more time and about the same money.

[jffielde]

As a test, you might shoot 7 shots in continuous mode in a fairly dark environment at base-ISO. If shots 3-7 are clean, I think you have nothing to worry about. I would like to know how you camera does. Thanks.

[raumplan]

As a test, you might shoot 7 shots in continuous mode in a fairly dark environment at base-ISO. If shots 3-7 are clean, I think you have nothing to worry about. I would like to know how you camera does. Thanks.

 

Sorry to hear that but this is consistent with what they told me, it is basically that there is nothing they can do and it sounds as though I am the only one making the complaint.

 

I have very specifically told them how to test it similar to what you mentioned but at a more mellow fashion. Just shoot 5 shots in single mode in a dynamic situation (a light and shadow), 2 seconds in between each shot. The devil will reveal inself from Shot 2 onwards!

 

But as I said earlier in my posts they couldnt replicate the problem. I then said maybe the problem is not widespread to 100% of MM but at least to a good number of the cameras, mine included. Yet they aren't willing to face up to the fact..... Can't they try to fix it with a firmware?

 

I now have 3 work-arounds:

 

1. Don't shoot while the card is writing, this means I have to wait 7 seconds between shots.

2. Don't use iso 320. This is a bit difficult for me as I am so used to the auto-iso function.

3. As suggested by a member in teh thread, I remove banding in Dfine2.

Edited April 19, 2013 by raumplan

[jaapv]

Given that Leica appears to have taken the problems seriously and tested the cameras to be within specs, and that only a few users experience them, isn't it time to start looking for other causes? The most obvious suspects are SD cards and batteries.

[raumplan]

Given that Leica appears to have taken the problems seriously and tested the cameras to be within specs, and that only a few users experience them, isn't it time to start looking for other causes? The most obvious suspects are SD cards and batteries.

 

 

I have tried half a dozen of cards and my battery is brand new and fully charged

[dwbell]

Given that Leica appears to have taken the problems seriously and tested the cameras to be within specs, and that only a few users experience them, isn't it time to start looking for other causes? The most obvious suspects are SD cards and batteries.

 

Alternatively, have more MM users repeat some agreed procedure and gather more results. Noting SD, battery %, like we did with the M9 SD saga. Leica had serious specific tests in place with that camera and it took the buying public to highlight their oversight.

[jaapv]

A new battery can be dodgy as well, try a second one. The next thing to check is the raw converter, try developing with a demo of another one like Photninja. I think we can discount totally unlikely stuff like a nearby naval radar station or a mobile phone gone haywire . I can' t think of anything else....

[raumplan]

A new battery can be dodgy as well, try a second one. The next thing to check is the raw converter, try developing with a demo of another one like Photninja. I think we can discount totally unlikely stuff like a nearby naval radar station or a mobile phone gone haywire . I can' t think of anything else....

 

 

I did try with the two new batteries I got! Old cards, new cards, etc I have tried too!

 

I think the the problems are pretty consistent here looking at all the pages in this thread and I just hope more people will report to Leica and let them know the problems do exist!

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[wjkotze]

I have tested 4 sd card brands ( Sandisk, Lexar, Panasonic and Transcend) covering 4 class ranges ( Class 2.4,6 and 10) and all of them produced banding under the right conditions. The individual cards do however have a distinct banding signature. The Sandisk Class 2 card produced very little banding whilst the Transcend Class 10 card produced severe and un-fixable banding. The Sandisk Class 6 card and the Panasonic Gold Class 10 card produced very noticeable banding, but was easily fixable in Dfine 2 due to the consistent pattern.

 

I have tested 2 batteries covering charge ranges from 20% to 100% and it played no role in the outcome.

 

Now here is the problem. Whilst I can produce banding at will with my MM, I have seen almost no banding in about 500 real world shots. I can however visualize real world shooting conditions that can pose a problem for certain photographers. This observation makes it difficult to determine how wide-spread the problem is because you can have three categories of cameras:

 

1. Cameras tested under the right conditions that definitely produces no banding.

 

2. Cameras that shows no banding in real world conditions, but can produces banding when tested under the right conditions.

 

3. Cameras that produces banding in real world conditions.

 

Category 2 and 3 can obviously overlap due to different shooting styles and subject matter. To put a camera into category 1 requires testing under following conditions:

 

1. Use base ISO (320)

2. Use fast sd card. Any class 10 card should do.

3. Shoot various 5-7 shot sequences in continuous mode.

4. Pick a high contrast scene with a large shadow component that meet or exceeds the dynamic range of the sensor. Expose to preserve highlights. Depending on the composition of the scene this might require an under exposure of up to 2 stops.

5. The deep shadow area should preferably be an even, continuous area as opposed to an area with a lot of high frequency detail. A flat screen tv works well.

6. Adjust the exposure and shadows in Lightroom until you can clearly inspect the full tonal range including the deep shadow areas.

 

If none of the frames shows banding you definitely have a category 1 camera.