Why?

[Paul J]

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So very few conquer or even master the Leica they own, so I call on that one.

 

I also wonder why one would use the word conquer rather than master. Are we at war with hardware?

 

.

 

Master/conquer. Same thing.

 

I don't think the camera is such a tough thing to conquer with sufficient time, practice, inclination and obsession. Though most sane people won't be bothered Conquering photography is a whole other story.

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[Jeff S]

Beyond the good points made my CalArts 99 and others, I think that Leica's place in the history of 35mm photography is a compounding factor, reinforced by the camera's use by many iconic photographers, with their own fan base (See HCB, et.al.). [The consistent and well deserved reputation of the lenses has added to the loyal following.]

 

The resulting aura, or mystique, has continued in part because the design principles and form factor (the current M in its many former iterations) also continue to this day.

 

Now that the masses have moved on to other camera brands, the company has marketed the now niche product(s) in terms of price, exclusivity and hand crafting. That price point, concurrent with a sometimes stubborn adherence to tradition, invites critique and debate.

 

But, much like Porsche, Leica is trying to maintain its roots (911 and the M) while expanding its product lines and targeted market appeal in various directions, and still attempting to maintain its aura of exclusivity and price point. That new direction invites even more debate, both within and without the current customer group (see Porsche Cayenne or Panamera). I now see as much debate within the Leica community on this direction as I see between Leica 'fans' and those favoring other brands. A slippery slope, perhaps.

 

Jeff

[NZDavid]

A quality product designed and built to last. A design classic. Even in the digital era. How many other products are designed that way?

[fahadm]

After 25 years of shooting with SLRs, I got my first Leica Monochrom last year.

 

I am surprised how well Leica bodies are lenses are made (despite their compactness).

 

Nonetheless, I'm keeping my Canon 5D2 and primes as now it serves a different purpose and shooting conditions.

 

Canon = fully-loaded Toyota Land Cruiser that can anywhere, anytime. Big, heavy 4x4 that has enough processing power to pilot a Lunar Lander.

 

Leica = manual-gear vintage Porsche that doesn't have Bluetooth or GPS. Just a stick, clutch and a steering wheel. Far more demanding of the driver, but can deliver brutal results in the right hands!

[Guest malland]

...Leica = manual-gear vintage Porsche that doesn't have Bluetooth or GPS. Just a stick, clutch and a steering wheel. Far more demanding of the driver, but can deliver brutal results in the right hands!

The frequent similes to Porches, or Rolexes or other luxury brands, is IMHO a part of the disease.

 

—Mitch/Bangkok

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[Fotofanatiker]

For me it's not loyalty. It's simply a lack of alternatives...

[pop]

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(...) one thing I have noticed, especially here on this forum, is the almost fanatical loyalty to the brand. (...) it seems to me that the typical Leica owner seems to be more sensitive to negative comments than owners of other brands....

 

Your observations are not in agreement with mine.

[FMB]

I'm 75. Leicaphyle since fourteen and tell me another brand which can use and enjoy in the ultimate model, still not in the dealers, a lens 50 years old.

 

Francisco.

[earleygallery]

I'm 75. Leicaphyle since fourteen and tell me another brand which can use and enjoy in the ultimate model, still not in the dealers, a lens 50 years old.

 

Francisco.

 

Nikon?

[FMB]

Nikon?

 

I don't know, but also there are Nikonphyles.

[250swb]

Now don't argue you two, a Nikon F and a Leica M2 are the perfect bedfellows.

 

Steve

[Peter H]

I'm sure many of us like to feel that we've made a wise, sensitive, well-informed decision, (so well-informed and wise that most other people get it wrong and plump for something inferior to get mistakenly proud of), and we don't like it when those others assume that we're the ones who've made the silly decision based on a lack of knowledge about what a "good" camera really is.

 

This is exacerbated when it carries a further assumption that we've only done for that most superficial of reasons, to show off.

 

Whether any of these assumption are valid is irrelevant to how we feel about them.

[JohannB]

"After all a camera is just a piece of metal and plastic and glass, made by some nameless fella in a factory in another country...."

 

Not totally true for Leica. My M-E and Summilux lens each came with a hand signed Test certificate.

 

This personal touch does make a difference in comparison with other brands.

 

 

Johann

[Ivan Muller]

"After all a camera is just a piece of metal and plastic and glass, made by some nameless fella in a factory in another country...."

 

Not totally true for Leica. My M-E and Summilux lens each came with a hand signed Test certificate.

 

This personal touch does make a difference in comparison with other brands.

 

 

Johann

 

mmmmm, I think my Billingham bag and perhaps my Contax G lenses also had little papers with some guys signature and a lens test report included....didn't make me think more or less of the products themselves, was just something I noticed while unpacking the goods and never looked at again..

[kdriceman]

I'm not sure I am really "loyal" to Leica. My M9 can be maddening at times, with slow write times, limited buffer capacity and fairly frequent dusty sensor. I do think it is well-built and relatively compact, which are things I like. But, it is also damn expensive. Still, I use it over and over again, not because of loyalty, but simply because the images it produces are just better than any of my other camera/lens combinations. So, I suppose it has made me a bit loyal, but it has earned it.

[Ivan Muller]

No, it's not just Leica and it's not only cameras. And this is also nothing new. There are hundreds of studies about brand ownership and loyalty (aka 'fanboyism.') But if you're truly interested then you can read the scholarly journal articles yourself. There are multiple takes on this issue.

 

Here is just one of many studies and interpretations but it seems to be what you are trying to imply with your thread.....

Journal of Consumer Psychology Volume 22, Issue 2, April 2012.

The effects of self-brand connections on responses of brand failure: A new look at the consumer-brand relationship. Cheng, White, and Chaplin (Hong Kong University; University of Illinois; Villanova University School of Business.)

Abstract

We argue that consumers with high self-brand connections (SBC) respond to negative brand information as they do to personal failure — they experience a threat to their positive self-view. After viewing negative brand information, high (vs. low) SBC consumers reported lower state self-esteem. Consumers with high SBC also maintained favorable brand evaluations despite negative brand information. However, when they completed an unrelated self-affirmation task, they lowered their brand evaluations the same as low SBC consumers. This finding suggests that high SBC consumers' reluctance to lower brand evaluation might be driven by a motivation to protect the self rather than the brand.

 

Nonetheless, I think the majority of people on this forum choose their photographic tools for a wide variety of personal reasons and are mature enough to not promote nor defend a product because of any self-esteem issues. Many of us own a wide variety of goods, including multiple brands of cameras. But if we truly enjoy using a particular product, we often like to share that enthusiasm. That's simply part of human nature.

 

:)Thanks Cal, this is very very interesting and explains the brand loyalists behaviour perfectly...and makes a lot of the responses and behaviour by some (note I didn't say all) forum members more understandable.....seems like its the way the consumer behaves unconsciencely and something only few have control over....and something clever marketers exploit to increase sales and brand loyalty....thus applicable to almost all products but perhaps perfected by the likes of Leica, Porsche, Ferrari, Rolex, Louis Vuitton etc etc etc....all luxury goods manufacturers....

 

It also explains why my children sometimes take it so personally when I 'dis' their favorite pop band or song.....

[Ivan Muller]

A quality product designed and built to last. A design classic. Even in the digital era. How many other products are designed that way?

 

David, my very plastic but fairly minimalist Konica Hexar rangefinder, with an astonishingly quiet shutter and drive mechanism, still works today and is in very good nick...I dont know how old it is but its fairly old...but Leica is not the only product that is build to last, my canon 20d still works perfectly to this day....yes it's only 8 years old....definitely not a design classic from a Leica point of view, but probably a game changer and one of the first affordable digital cameras...and probably helped a lot in making digital popular and vice versa for film.....and it is a high quality product with very high build quality, far more so than my X1....it has never broken or left me in the lurch, not so my problematic x1.....but I do agree that the 'm' is the most beautiful looking camera available today......with often the highest quality lenses that money can buy together with superb sensors...the ultimate photographic tool....! the miracle is that a common and garden variety plastic mass produced Japanese camera can get so close to Leica quality at such a low price....and thank goodness for that, because what else would the masses be able to afford....?

[lct]

What are you trying to prove exactly? Leicas are the only digital rangefinders in town. If Rolex were the only mechanical watches available, you would buy one if you can afford it or you'd choose a cheaper Seiko or Swatch instead.

[pico]

I have had a Leica for just over two years now and one thing I have noticed, especially here on this forum, is the almost fanatical loyalty to the brand.

 

First, what you sense as fanatic loyalty arises from particularly evident language, which stands out even when it is not fanatic loyalty, so the sampling of comments is probably biased by your own sensitivities.

 

Value is difficult to define. It has a moral or a material dimension; often both. An example of a moral dimension might be where a person believes that the Leica they favor represents an example of 'things as they should be'. An example of value in a material manner might be its persistent sale value. Of course, value of an object can be both.

 

CalArts' abstract put well when it describes how some consider a criticism of their fashion an accusation of personal failure.

 

And of course there is probably a majority who could give a hoot what anyone thinks of their favorite things. Ninety percent of opinion is bullshit and they know it.

[Carduelis]

I have become a big fan of the optical qualities of small, compact Leica M lenses, however I am still to be convinced about Leica M digital cameras which I feel are too costly and might attract unwanted attention resulting in theft and occasional jealous remarks; after all some people cover up the red rondel and the M9P avoids the red rondel.

 

I like the idea of being discrete with my Leica optics on my Ricoh GXR and if Ricoh were to bring out a decent full frame sensor Leica mount say for about £1k, I would rather prefer that option in preference to a second hand M9 at say £3k. In this digital era, in my opinion it is the optics and sensor that matter irrespective of the name on the camera. That said, if I can get a used M9 at the right price, I may succumb and finally buy a Leica camera as I want to go full frame and there are no obvious signs of a Ricoh full frame sensor Leica mount on the horizon.

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