Help: identifying my Leica-M 50 Summilux lens (Silver, 1962)???

[TheToadMen]

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I have a silver Leica-M 50 mm lens f 1.4 Summilux with serial number 1946918 (Germany). The serial number indicates that this lens is from 1962. It is in very good condition and works flawlessly.

 

Q1) Am I correct in assuming it is the first type of this lens?

 

Q2) My other question: I saw two other lenses like these on internet"

- the first has serial number 1945xxx see: Leica M 1:1,4/50 mm Summilux Silver, Version 1., 2.160,00 €

- the second has serial number 2072xxx see: LEICA SUMMILUX 50mm f/1.4 (1960-2004)

My lens number is in the middle of these numbers. The first lens on internet has "13" engraved behind the letter "m" and beneath the word "feet" of the focusing scale. The second lens has "14" engraved in this place. However, my lens has no engraving in this place what so ever.

Can anyone tell me what this engravings mean and why there isn't any on my lens?

Thank you!

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Toadmen,

 

Welcome to the Forum.

 

You have a 2nd optical version, 1st mechanical version lens. A preferred combination.

 

In 1962 some, but not all, lenses had begun to have their actual focal lengths engraved on the lens barrel. Many stated focal lengths of many lenses of many manufacturers (not just Leitz/Leica) are approximate. Engraving began @ Leitz around 1960 but was not universal until somewhat later. Lenses shorter than 50mm do not have their actual focal lengths engraved.

 

The system of engraving was to write the LAST digit (ie: the "0" of "50") + the 1/10th of a millimeter of the ACTUAL focal length w/o the decimal .

 

Example:

 

50.0 = 00

 

51.3 = 13

 

49.7 = 97

 

Enjoy your lens.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

[TheToadMen]

Hello Michael,

Thanks for the reply. I tried other fora, but this is the first time I got an answer. I should have turned to Leica users in the first place:)

And your last remark "Enjoy your lens" almost answered my third question, I didn't dare to post here:

 

Q3) This my hardest question (and doubt). Seeing the 2nd hand prices for these lenses, I'm wondering if I should sell mine and invest the money in a M9 or M-Monochrome camera (I love B&W)? I'm told Leica lenses are hard(er) to get nowadays thus raising the 2nd hand market prices. I also have a 35 mm Summicron, a 50 mm Summicron and a 90 mm Elmarit (f 2.8). I like wide angle more than tele photo. So I'm also thinking of selling the 90 mm lens (black, #2427612, Germany, like new) since I don't use it. This would mean I'll keep the 35 and 50 mm Summicron lenses. I have an old & battered M4-2 (but functioning), a M5 and a brand new M7. I would like to go digital with Leica but can't afford to buy one. My only digital camera is a Nikon D200. So: what would you do? Or maybe trade in my M7 for a digital Leica? I'm not sure....

 

Well, my conclusions so far:

- I'm not trading/selling my M7. It's a beautiful camera and I keep shooting film.

- I think I'll hang on to the Summilux for a while, being it such a special lens. This means however, that I won't have the money to get me a (used) M9 or M Monochrome .... Maybe I should try to sell some Nikon or LF glass first.

- But I'm gonna sell the Leica-M 90 Elmarit, since I won't use it: I don't go higher than 50 mm on Leica. I don't if there's a market for this type of lens?

[jaapv]

So buy an M8.

[TheToadMen]

So buy an M8.

 

Hello Jaap,

If I'm right, the M8 isn't full frame sensor. And since I'm fond of wide angle I would like a full frame sensor. Don't know about the M8.2 though ...

[iedei]

Hello Jaap,

If I'm right, the M8 isn't full frame sensor. And since I'm fond of wide angle I would like a full frame sensor. Don't know about the M8.2 though ...

 

well looking at what you have now....the widest thing you have is a 35 right? so get an M8 and a 28mm and you're set!

 

the M8, M8.1, and M8.2 are the same camera....with different degrees of shutter, framelines, and cosmetic upgrades.

[luigi bertolotti]

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....But I'm gonna sell the Leica-M 90 Elmarit, since I won't use it: I don't go higher than 50 mm on Leica. I don't if there's a market for this type of lens?

 

90mm is a focal that has always number of passionates in the Leica world : but from the s/n, your 90 is a Elmarit (to say.. no "Tele Elmarit" no "Elmarit-M"), which is not a highly valued item, even if the black version, like yours, is less common than the chrome one. Is a lens often found on eaby and at dealers... so it's easy to have an idea of how much one can bring in from it.

[TheToadMen]

90mm is a focal that has always number of passionates in the Leica world : but from the s/n, your 90 is a Elmarit (to say.. no "Tele Elmarit" no "Elmarit-M"), which is not a highly valued item, even if the black version, like yours, is less common than the chrome one. Is a lens often found on eaby and at dealers... so it's easy to have an idea of how much one can bring in from it.

 

If you look at this site: Leica 90mm f/2.8 Lenses

Mine is the model mentioned as "1959-1974: 90mm ELMARIT f/2.8" in black, made in Germany in 1970 with the original front and back cap and the original lenshood.

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello ToadMen,

 

You have actually asked a number of questions. I will try to answer but in no specific order.

 

I would stay with full frame.

 

If you are considering investment potential then the most saveable lens is the 50/1.4. Assuming it is in pristine condition & you do not use it.

 

Next comes the M7 because it is pretty much unused.

 

Once either shows noticable use or wear then their collectability begins to decline. The M7 more than the 50/1.4. It is good to keep the original lens shades, body & lens caps, etc. Also in as unused a condition as possible.

 

If I were going to use ANY of what you have I would use the 35mm Summicron (whichever version you have) & the M5. These are the most versatile & useable from my perspective:

 

35mm F2 is good for lots of subjects & circumstances. Sometimes it's a compromise but it can be more useful in many situations than many other lenses.

 

The M5 probably has the best .72 range/viewfinder that Leitz/Leica has ever made. Ever.

 

You might think a M4-2 or another M might have as good a .72 range/viewfinder but if you compare the view thru the other .72 range/viewfinders you will see a difference.

 

The M5's also have the best shutter speed dial as well as a more variable shutter in terms of intermediate speeds. The shutter speed dial overhanging in the front means you can adjust the shutter speed (visible in the range/viewfinder) without taking your eye away from the range/viewfinder window.

 

An M5 has 3 INDEPENDENT flash connections.

 

The battery problem is easily solveable. Please look in the LeicaR/Leicaflex Section under the Thread about replacements for PX 625 batteries. It is the battery the M5 uses.

 

The M5 has the narrowest angle semi-spot meter of any M. You should learn to read (not develop for) zones when determining exposures. It makes exposure determination easier & faster.

 

An M5 also has a removable (if you want to) take up spool on its quick loading (not to be confused w/ quick-load) film take up. Among other things you can use it to take out & develop part of a roll of film.

 

Your 90mm 2.8 might be more usable & versatile than you now think. Try it w/ the M5 range/viewfinder. Even if you don't use it very much @ first.

 

The M4-2 makes a good backup for the M5. Or you can use 1 body w/ 1 lens or film & the other w/ something different.

 

Remember: 1 of the advantages of film cameras is that when you change the film you change the sensor: Monochrome, color, etc.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

[jaapv]

If you look at this site: Leica 90mm f/2.8 Lenses

Mine is the model mentioned as "1959-1974: 90mm ELMARIT f/2.8" in black, made in Germany in 1970 with the original front and back cap and the original lenshood.

That is what Luigi is saying. It is a decent lens -Leica has never built a bad 90 mm- but the Elmarit-M and to a lesser extent Tele-Elmarit are the more attractive lenses.

[menos I M6]

@TheToadMen:

First of all, I would determine, if digital is really for you.

Best would be, to rent or lend a Leica M9 from a renting outfit or a kind friend, so you can find out, if using the digital camera and (this is the biggest change going digital) doing the digital post processing and printing is to your taste.

 

If you really find out, that you want a digital Leica M, than you should pin down which of your lenses and camera bodies are really your favourite ones.

 

A decision on selling and buying gear, I would do as this:

 

Leica M7 - most income by selling from the three film bodies, giving you a big chunk on a second hand M9.

The M7 has also a lot of overlap function wise with the M9 and you will feel right at home with the M9, if the M7 is your most liked body.

 

M4 - according to your description, it is in cosmetic condition, that likely will net the least income from selling it of the three bodies. I would keep this as a film body in the system.

 

M5 - this is a subjective matter - if you like the camera, keep it, if it is a shelf queen, sell it.

 

50 Summicron vs 50 Summilux v2 - the Summilux, you have is much more difficult to find on the used market, than the Summicron. Both lenses have different character. I would sell the lens, I like the character less with another priority on the difficulty/ value on the Summilux.

 

In a few years, you might hate yourself for selling the Summilux, so take this into consideration.

 

The 90mm is, as mentioned not a very valuable lens in terms of second market price, but it is for itself a lovely rendering 90mm (which will not help you much, if you don't like/ use it).

I would sell it in your situation.

 

Second hand M9 bodies are more and more coming down in price with currently almost breaking the 3000 EUR border for older, more used samples.

Selling a M7 + 50 Summicron + 90 Elmarit brings you the most way there (again, if that is, what you really want and digital is for you).

 

Most important thing, to consider:

Any digital body - also (and maybe especially, as we recently learned) Leica digital M bodies are subject to big and sometimes surprisingly fast depreciation in value.

 

All digital bodies bottom out in second market value in less than 10 years of product life way under their film equivalents after half a century of product life.

 

My M9 did cost me 10 times as much, as my Leica M3 did cost me, but I estimate, that by the day, the M9 has it's 10th anniversary, it will hold only half the value of the M3 by then.

About this point, one must be very clear before making the step into digital.

 

A second point is also to be considered: if with a digital body a malfunction occurs, often, easily costs in the several hundreds of EUR, even crossing 1000 EUR can surprise your balance sheet (just drop the camera or have a camera break out of warranty and not get lucky with an understanding dealer/ customer service).

 

This can either be covered by additional insurance costs or in case by direct cost to your wallet.

Usually such sums in repair costs were not often heard of in the old days of Leica M film cameras.

 

In any case, enjoy your v2 Summilux - indeed a very fine lens, worth holding onto and if you should go digital, enjoy it the fullest! The digital gear does rot fast, but if used will give you many, many photographs, to enjoy and value!

[philipus]

I agree with Dirk. First decide if digital is for you. If you find that it is, then make the tricky choices re which equipment to divest yourself of. In terms of how to decide if a digital M is for you, perhaps you could try someone's camera or try one in a shop? I see you're in Holland - if I had an M9 I'd let you try it (btw, I've pm'd you with info on a used - mint - M9 I've seen). But even just testing one in a shop should give you a good impression.

 

I would personally, though, keep one film M because I love film. In my case, that would be the M4-2.

 

So, since you prefer the wider focal lengths, I'd keep the 35 Summicron and the 50 Summilux and sell - or trade in - the rest. Depending on condition the M7+M5+50 Summicron+90 Elmarit should give you between 2500-3000€. Add to that your Nikon gear and you'll likely come very close to a used M9 (like the one I pm'd you about).

 

Good luck

[TheToadMen]

(btw, I've pm'd you with info on a used - mint - M9 I've seen).

Good luck

 

Hi Philipus,

I didn't get your PM. Could you resend it or mail me: gemeentehuis AT gmail , com

Thanks,

Bert

[philipus]

Really sorry to hear that Bert. I have emailed you the message.

Cheers