marknorton Posted March 20, 2007 Share #1 Â Posted March 20, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I did some portrait stuff this afternoon using the M8 and 50/1.4 and 75/2 with the SF-24D. I thought, naievely, that having played with the flash, read the article in LFI and practiced, it would be fine. Â Wrong! It's a bit of a dog... Â Leaving aside the fixed head, I found the biggest problem in GNC mode was the strength and timing of the pre-flash. The pre-flash is quite strong and the main flash comes at just the right time to find your subject... blinking. Other flashes have a longer delay for red-eye reduction and a shorter delay for TTL flash metering, but the SF-24D just gets it wrong. Â I eventually gave up, switched to my D2x with a pair of IR triggered flashes using their fabulous matrix balanced fill flash and the 17-55 f2.8 and I'm very pleased with the results. Â The Leica would have been ideal for the unobtrusive shooting I was looking for but the flash badly lets it down. I'm really hoping for a better offering from Leica/Metz with off camera triggering, tripod mounting and tilting heads. Â The timing is all wrong though. Anyone else found this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 20, 2007 Posted March 20, 2007 Hi marknorton, Take a look here Thumbs down for the SF-24D. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest Olof Posted March 20, 2007 Share #2 Â Posted March 20, 2007 Have you only tried it with the biggest apperture ? I had also problems with these flash untill i go to f 4. Then it was fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted March 20, 2007 Share #3 Â Posted March 20, 2007 Mark, I find that the pre-flash really messes things up. Did you try the 24 at auto? Is there an auto? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roderik Posted March 20, 2007 Share #4 Â Posted March 20, 2007 The SF 20 with Aperture setting works great. do not think the compare you make is fair.. one small fill flash against infrared triggerd remote flashes.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted March 20, 2007 Author Share #5 Â Posted March 20, 2007 Olof, yes, I've seen the situation before where the image is over-exposed due to the ambient light so that the flash output can't be reduced enough and you need to stop down enough to prevent this from happening. I was shooting in quite dim ambient but wanted to preserve it with the flash just lifting the subject. Â I did try it on auto but I found it more difficult to balance the ambient with the flash, the flash tends to take over, where actually I just wanted to fill in. As I understand it, that's the whole point of the GNC, the camera gets to meter ambient as well as the pre-flash and sets the guide number appropriately. Â Bill, with your stage work are you using flash or do the stage lights provide enough illumination? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted March 20, 2007 Share #6 Â Posted March 20, 2007 I am also having massive exposure problems with sf24d for fill. Mostly -0.3-0.6 for camera/ambient exposure and -1.1/3 or -1.1/6 for the flash works , but sometimes I still experienced heavy over exposure. Â I dont see any advantage of the ttl metering besides I dont have to manually set f-stop and iso at the flash. Â I would not pay again that much money for such a small flash. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elopezso Posted March 20, 2007 Share #7 Â Posted March 20, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I too have experienced the dreaded folks are caught blinking by the SF-24D flash. As a result, I will do anything to avoid it. This means using the Tri-Elmar during the day and switching to the CV Ultron and Nocton as it gets darker or when shooting indoors. When shooting at night outdoors, for some reason the SF-24D works a tad better and folks aren't caught blinking as often! Â Best of luck, Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted March 20, 2007 Share #8 Â Posted March 20, 2007 ... Bill, with your stage work are you using flash or do the stage lights provide enough illumination? Â Mark, Flash sucks on a big stage. Speaking of my Metz 54, it just gets lost and makes shadows. Â If I have to do this again, I'll bring multiple strobes and umbrellas. Unfortunately, this destroys the stage lighting. Â I do plan to try some fill with the Metz, but haven't done this yet. I am curious to see what it will do, but it's surely going to mess up the white balance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_Brittenson Posted March 20, 2007 Share #9 Â Posted March 20, 2007 I agree that the SF24 preflash is useless. I only ever use it in A mode. I don't think the biggest issue with it is the preflash (well, it is, but it's not an essential feature IMO) -- but rather it range of output. It's hard to shoot it for fill with fast lenses in low light since its minimum output is a bit high. The SFill or an ND gel helps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
harmsr Posted March 20, 2007 Share #10 Â Posted March 20, 2007 I agree with Mark, that I virtually have no real use for my SF24D. Â Basically it is (M8 + available light) or (M8 + plus ProPhotos and Pocket Wizard). Â For walkaround flash or daylight fill, I grab the Nikon DSLR just like I would for Macro, Product, or Telephoto shots. Â Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love my M8 but think that it is just not the right tool for flash at this point. The SF24D is underpowered and as previously stated can cause issues with the pre-flash. The Metz 54 just seems TOO BIG to even consider using on the M8. If I am going to use a flash that large, then I also want all the i-TTL benefits from my SLR. Â Just my $.02. Â Best, Â Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertwright Posted March 20, 2007 Share #11 Â Posted March 20, 2007 I have been using the SF20D with my M8 and it does fill pretty well on Auto because it is so underpowered. I can shoot down to 2.8 in a tungsten room and get something, also I have put 1/4 cto in the diffuser to help it balance better. Â But for BW I prefer the strobe to be full, so I use a little portable sunpack 144D which only has two auto apertures, but I can get f11 out of it at 10 feet, so it becomes my no-focus point and shoot, great at weddings, everything is sharp, frozen, and you don't really have to focus. You can get the exact moment you want. Â The 24D sounds like too much money for no reward to me. Â Btw if you really want to have fun go get one of those morris slave lights, they have a little round puck shaped one that takes 2 AA batts and has a slave and a suction cup, you can put it somewhere as a backlight and use the flash on the camera to trigger it. More fun than a bag o'squirrels.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted March 20, 2007 Author Share #12 Â Posted March 20, 2007 No idea how much fun a bag o'squirrels is, but I'll take your word for it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertwright Posted March 21, 2007 Share #13 Â Posted March 21, 2007 well its only fun on the outside, inside, different story... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scjohn Posted March 21, 2007 Share #14 Â Posted March 21, 2007 I suspect this thread reflects a shift in the expectations of the digital Leica user. I had seldom used a flash on my M7. I prefer not to use a flash with my M8. Â The 24 doesn't have a tilting head and the TTL balance is not always right but what I want is a very small TTL that I can take with me for those few situations where I simply cannot avoid using a flash. (If I know I will need artificial light the D2X would be my choice anyway.) I love the 24D for the role it plays in my leica kit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertwright Posted March 21, 2007 Share #15  Posted March 21, 2007 I suspect this thread reflects a shift in the expectations of the digital Leica user. I had seldom used a flash on my M7. I prefer not to use a flash with my M8. The 24 doesn't have a tilting head and the TTL balance is not always right but what I want is a very small TTL that I can take with me for those few situations where I simply cannot avoid using a flash. (If I know I will need artificial light the D2X would be my choice anyway.) I love the 24D for the role it plays in my leica kit.  well is that not exactly what the sf20 and m6ttl could do? It is a shame that there cannot be such a simple solution for the M8. The GNC thing is not a solution.  you can do fill pretty easily with any auto flash, set the flash to f4 for example, the camera to 2.8, and then bring the ambient up with the shutter to one stop below and shoot. that would be 1:1 flash/ambient. for less strobe try to set the flash for f5.6 and do the same. At least the sf24 allows you to pick any aperture instead of presets like the 20D. You could use aperture priority if you want too, and set the exposure comp to minus one while doing the above. that would essentially be "auto" TTL if you like. Chimp the fine points. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eoin Posted March 21, 2007 Share #16 Â Posted March 21, 2007 I've said this on a number of occasions about the GNC mode and timings which seem to capture everyone blinking or just starting to open their eyes. Â I do however find the A mode works very well with full manual giving the best results but requiring a lot of work. I'd recommend picking up one of the older Nikon SC17 flash cables to use the flash off shoe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roderik Posted March 21, 2007 Share #17 Â Posted March 21, 2007 The D2x is a far worse flasher then the F5 (nikon) so there must be something with digital and flash. There are some Metz Flash wich work with leica. I have next to my SF20 a Mz30-3 wich works perfect with the M6. did not try it on the M8 yet Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted March 21, 2007 Share #18 Â Posted March 21, 2007 Whats it worth on ebay? I'll use one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 21, 2007 Share #19 Â Posted March 21, 2007 I seldomly use flash; I don't like the look. Fillin is something else. In my experience the SF24D is very accurate, but one cannot expect too much of such a small thing. It is somewhat better than the pop-up flash some DSLR's have and the built-in flashes of P&S, but that is about all. For the rest: The M8 is handholdable to astonishingly long shutter times, Leica is the Summilux and Noctilux company, so flash should not be that important, especilly with the M8, where the shadows can be managed in post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsh Posted March 21, 2007 Share #20 Â Posted March 21, 2007 I've had no issues with the 24D. I do override by a stop. For a larger flash, I use the Metz 36 on auto. It is the flash I have been using with an SL2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.