Michael Geschlecht Posted November 27, 2012 Share #21 Posted November 27, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello Luigi, Nice photos both. It appears the 2 lenses may have been focussed @ 2 slightly different image planes. Is it possible to have 2 new photographs w/ the same point of precise focus within the image that both lenses would each focus on? For example: The left eye of a person who's head is on a small coin. I think the 100mm lens might be designed to give its best image @ F11. Possibly the 90mm lens also. I'm not as sure about the 90mm lens. Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 27, 2012 Posted November 27, 2012 Hi Michael Geschlecht, Take a look here V-Elmar. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
luigi bertolotti Posted November 27, 2012 Author Share #22 Posted November 27, 2012 Hi Michael : your observation are right, and this has been a test that, though made with a decently setup (tripod, of course, and with different distance to APPROXIMATIVELY take into account the 90 vs.100 FL) hasn't been made in a really 100% controlled methodology : - Natural light that had slight changes during the test (it was not a bright sun day, but a "varying cloudy sky") which can have a role in some differences in contrast (but, in general, the V Elmar does look a bit more contrasty lens than the Elmar 90 3) - Focusing : I didn't make focus bracketing... and used my Viso II that hasn't been calibrated (differently from my Viso III). - Subject : far from flat... I'll make another test with a less pleasant subject (my wife is enjoying the "late autumn roses"... ) but a more "straight" one, like you say... just a matter to have the time to do it (I want to compare also with the TE 135 lenshead and maybe also my Elmarit 90 M mounted on Viso... a nonstandard setup of limited flexibility, but a good reference as a modern very sharp lens) Anyway, here are two different crops of the same subject, both at f11, first V Elmar then Elmar 90 3 el. , always unprocessed jpg - resized : the V Elmar always displays difference in contrast and also in color rendition: the pics were taken 5 minutes or so one from the other... but I'd say that light hadn't changed to justify the differences. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 4 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/192561-v-elmar/?do=findComment&comment=2175981'>More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted November 27, 2012 Author Share #23 Posted November 27, 2012 (btw... looking at the above pics on this normal business notebook... it's impressive how much the images change looking form slightly different angles....) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted November 27, 2012 Share #24 Posted November 27, 2012 Hi Luigi, Both images look very nice on my iPad3. The second one appears slightly paler. Congratulations on your new lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted November 27, 2012 Share #25 Posted November 27, 2012 (edited) Hello Luigi, Both photos are really nice. I think you will be equally pleased when you do a similar test w/ your 135mm Tele-Elmar. As an observation: It appears to me both photos in the second set are just a bit better @ F11 than they were @ F8. Best Regards, Michael Edited November 27, 2012 by Michael Geschlecht Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted November 27, 2012 Author Share #26 Posted November 27, 2012 Hi Luigi, Both images look very nice on my iPad3. The second one appears slightly paler. Congratulations on your new lens. Yes... this is the difference that surprised me the most... all settings were identical... and, as I wrote, is the Out Of Camera jpg fine unpostprocessed at all : all the difference is in the glass... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted November 28, 2012 Share #27 Posted November 28, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello Everybody, The "paler" rendition of the 90mm 3 element Elmar, a good lens by today's standards, may be because the 100mm F4.5 might be a higher contrast lens which produces less diffuse highlights. This "paler" image relationship was also present in the first 2 photos @ a wider aperture. Best Regards, Michael 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted November 28, 2012 Author Share #28 Posted November 28, 2012 Hello Everybody, The "paler" rendition of the 90mm 3 element Elmar, a good lens by today's standards, may be because the 100mm F4.5 might be a higher contrast lens which produces less diffuse highlights. This "paler" image relationship was also present in the first 2 photos @ a wider aperture. Best Regards, Michael I wonder if the lenses made to work on enlargers were designed with different methodologies about chroma abherrations... after all, even with color negatives, they had to work only on a narrow spectrum... Also... they were made to transmit light in a certain direction (lamp--->lens--->paper) opposite to the one when they are used as taking lenses: no idea if this can affect their rendering... but, at a first look, in the above pics I "like more" the colors of the V Elmar... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Hilo Posted January 29, 2013 Share #29 Posted January 29, 2013 A little late in joining, both the forum and this discussion . . . I have the same Elmar 100/4.5 and I needed a loupe to find its serial number: on the rear and around the glass are some matte black rings. On one of these rings is a 7 digit number engraved. Let's see yours has got that too My own question about this lens - is that the number I have is not listed with the serial numbers listed in this forum's database. My lens' number is 2369569 and in the database the production stopped much before this. Unless I get it wrong, which would not surprise me . . . Finally, I have had this enlarger since the mid eighties, and have often printed 6X9, there is no question in my mind that this lens covers 6X9 beautifully. I also have the Focotar-2 100mm and would say the main difference is that I see a more crisp or contrastful image with this Focotar. (btw, I think the same goes for the Focotar-2 50mm, for the 1C). The Elmar has a beautiful caracter, difficult to describe that. The contrast is fine, and at the same time it has a very pleasant softness to the image One does need to stop down this Elmar 2 or 3 times, and perhaps the Focotar-2 needs less stopping down. (which I hardly ever want to do). I have just bought a V-Elmar 100 f 4,5 - enlarger lens (*) : I see in the Wiki that its production batches are normally reported in Put's... but I CAN'T FIND AT ALL a serial number engraved on it... can someone enlighten me about ? (*) It wasn't a target of mine... but happens that this morning I have taken a fly to Bruxelles for the first time in my life... reach downtown by bus, walk to my Hotel - almost randomly choosen on the Net... and what do I find 30 meters from it ? A photo shop with several used Leica gear on the display window !!! ... a sign of destiny - no doubt - entered and took it... ... is std. LTM 39 mount... I will see how it works as a macro on bellows) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted January 29, 2013 Author Share #30 Posted January 29, 2013 Hallo Machiel, and thanks a lot for your hint about the s/n... I'll surely check as soon as I'm home ! About the number of your item (2.369.569) , the well known list by Erwin Puts (and, consequently, the Wiki section) does quote this number as belonging to a batch of 500 Enlarger lenses ... but of V Elmar 100 f4 , to say, the model which superseded the V Elmar 100 f4,5 ... do you confirm that yours is a f 4,5 as mine ? It wouldn't be the first time that those "mismatchings" do emerge... and enlarger lenses are not at the top of the collectors'interest and study... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Hilo Posted January 29, 2013 Share #31 Posted January 29, 2013 Luigi, you are welcome ! Yes, my lens is the 4.5 version. I had seen my serial number with the f4 version data, so I double checked the lens . . . All I am really interested in is from which year my enlarger is. I have no reason to believe the lenses were ever changed, so their s/n and production year are a good indication to me. The 60mm Focotar on this enlarger is nr. 2328597, which is (also) from 1969 To be honest, before seeing the f4 version mentioned here, I never realised there are two Elmar versions. You say the f4 version superseded the 4.5 version. Isn't it so they both came into production in 1959, and the f4.5 ended in 1964. And the f4 version ended in 1976. Perhaps those rings with the serial numbers were identical . . . Mamma Mia !! Hallo Machiel, and thanks a lot for your hint about the s/n... I'll surely check as soon as I'm home ! About the number of your item (2.369.569) , the well known list by Erwin Puts (and, consequently, the Wiki section) does quote this number as belonging to a batch of 500 Enlarger lenses ... but of V Elmar 100 f4 , to say, the model which superseded the V Elmar 100 f4,5 ... do you confirm that yours is a f 4,5 as mine ? It wouldn't be the first time that those "mismatchings" do emerge... and enlarger lenses are not at the top of the collectors'interest and study... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
telewatt Posted January 29, 2013 Share #32 Posted January 29, 2013 The V-Elmar 4,5/100mm was made from 1959-1973 1.691.701 - 1.692.000 1959 (300) 1.713.501 - 1.714.500 1959 (1000) 2.515.101 - 2.515.300 1972 (200) 2.654.601 - 2.654.900 1973 (300) Hartmut Thiele "Fabrikationsbuch Leica Objektive" 2010 (fabrication book Leica Lenses) Grüße, Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Hilo Posted January 29, 2013 Share #33 Posted January 29, 2013 Jan, thanks ! Very kind. That sounds more plausible than the data info here. Still, there's a loud gap in which my 2369569 Elmar 4,5/100mm was made Machiel The V-Elmar 4,5/100mm was made from 1959-1973 1.691.701 - 1.692.000 1959 (300) 1.713.501 - 1.714.500 1959 (1000) 2.515.101 - 2.515.300 1972 (200) 2.654.601 - 2.654.900 1973 (300) Hartmut Thiele "Fabrikationsbuch Leica Objektive" 2010 (fabrication book Leica Lenses) Grüße, Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
telewatt Posted January 29, 2013 Share #34 Posted January 29, 2013 Jan, thanks ! Very kind. That sounds more plausible than the data info here. Still, there's a loud gap in which my 2369569 Elmar 4,5/100mm was made Machiel ...your lens is a fake... Thiele has described the block numbers 2.368.001 - 2.370.00 (1969) with Focotar 4,5/60mm ....2000 pieces!.....perhaps it was indeed 1000 + 1000 Focomat IIc units .. 4,5/60mm + 4,5/100mm... regards, Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Hilo Posted January 29, 2013 Share #35 Posted January 29, 2013 I have always wondered if perhaps my entire 2C wasn't fake: the black parts light up bright green in the dark and when I expose there comes a sound from the column, like what you hear when you put a shell to your ear ! Thanks Jan, now I know ! ...your lens is a fake... Thiele has described the block numbers 2.368.001 - 2.370.00 (1969) with Focotar 4,5/60mm ....2000 pieces!.....perhaps it was indeed 1000 + 1000 Focomat IIc units .. 4,5/60mm + 4,5/100mm... regards, Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted January 30, 2013 Author Share #36 Posted January 30, 2013 ...and now is my turn to think that my V Elmar can be a fake.... : Machiel, my lens does have the black matte rings around the back lens.... AND DON'T SEE ANY NUMBER !!! I checked with an enlarging lens.... I checked under a strong lamp.... I do not see ANYTHING... Please... isn't that you could post a (even rough) picture detailing WHERE you find yours ?... or I'm blind or I'm stupid or... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Hilo Posted January 30, 2013 Share #37 Posted January 30, 2013 Luigi, Perhaps when your lens is fake, it is more collectable ! I anticipated the situation and this morning I scanned the back part of my Elmar . . . quite rough, and I pushed the high lights to show you my lens is not fake, ha! Now I am going to see how large the attachment can be. If you do not see the serial number, send me a pm with your email address and I will return a large file of this image . . . You could consider scanning the rear of your lens too. I selected the lens in a preview scan, put a small carton box over it and scanned it at 800dpi . . . ...and now is my turn to think that my V Elmar can be a fake.... : Machiel, my lens does have the black matte rings around the back lens.... AND DON'T SEE ANY NUMBER !!! I checked with an enlarging lens.... I checked under a strong lamp.... I do not see ANYTHING... Please... isn't that you could post a (even rough) picture detailing WHERE you find yours ?... or I'm blind or I'm stupid or... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/192561-v-elmar/?do=findComment&comment=2228887'>More sharing options...
telewatt Posted January 30, 2013 Share #38 Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) Jan, thanks ! Very kind. That sounds more plausible than the data info here. Still, there's a loud gap in which my 2369569 Elmar 4,5/100mm was made Machiel larger gaps are not surprising as the FOCOMAT IIc was discontinued beginning of the 60s and in 1963 (photokina) was back in the program (with the new V-Elmar 4,5/100mm), also from 1973-1976, he was not offered.... Jan Edited January 30, 2013 by telewatt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
telewatt Posted January 30, 2013 Share #39 Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) Luigi, you are welcome ! Yes, my lens is the 4.5 version. I had seen my serial number with the f4 version data, so I double checked the lens . . . All I am really interested in is from which year my enlarger is. I have no reason to believe the lenses were ever changed, so their s/n and production year are a good indication to me. The 60mm Focotar on this enlarger is nr. 2328597, which is (also) from 1969 To be honest, before seeing the f4 version mentioned here, I never realised there are two Elmar versions. You say the f4 version superseded the 4.5 version. Isn't it so they both came into production in 1959, and the f4.5 ended in 1964. And the f4 version ended in 1976. Perhaps those rings with the serial numbers were identical . . . Mamma Mia !! V-Elmar 4/100mm ?!?..........such a lens I have never seen or heard of... Jan Edit:... I once looked up briefly in the "Leica photography International" 3/1977, Focotar II 5,6 / 100mm was the direct successor to the V-Elmar 4,5 / 100mm ...and was offered from 1977.... Edited January 30, 2013 by telewatt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Hilo Posted January 30, 2013 Share #40 Posted January 30, 2013 Nor had I, until I came across it here, in the database for enlarging lenses & their serial numbers . . . my 4.5 100mm is mentioned with a serial number range of this f4 100mm . . . Leitz Enlarger Lenses VAROB f = 5 cm 1:3.5 Elmar f= 5 cm 1:2.8 (bayonet version + 17671T) - [5] see #12 + #14 Elmar f = 5 cm 1:3.5 - DAXOO Elmar f = 5 cm 1:3.5 -- DOOIT Elmar f = 5 cm 1:3.5 - DOOGS Focotar 1:4.5 / 95 mm - FOODE V-Elmar f = 100 mm 1:4 V-Elmar f = 100 mm 1:4.5 Focotar - 1:4.5 / 50 mm - DOOUM Focotar - 1 1:4.5 / 50 mm - DOOCQ Focotar - 1 1:4.5 / 50 mm. - DOOHF (LFE) Focotar - 2 1:4.5 / 50 mm Focotar - 3 1:4.5 / 50 mm - (prototype) Focotar 1:4.5 / 60 mm - DQOOR Focotar - 2 1:5.6 /100 mm WA Focotar 1:2.8 / 40 mm link is: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/Enlargers_and_Film_Processing By the way, with the Focotar II 5.6/100mm Leitz changed the position of the serial number to the front, easily readable. No doubt because they redesigned the entire lens, including the matte ring in the rear part: it has become much thinner without any room for a number . . . mine is from 1976 V-Elmar 4/100mm ?!?..........such a lens I have never seen or heard of... Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now